'Runes of the Earth' nominated for World Fantasy Award

[Ainulindale]

I apologize if this was posted elsewhere.


Stephen Donaldson is in excellent company, being nominated for the World Fantasy Award for Best Novel this year including authors like China Mieville, Susanna Clarke, Gene Wolfe, and Sean Stewart.

Check out the full list of awards and nominess here.

Mieville has already won the Arthur C. Clarke Award for best novel , and the Locus Best Fantasy Novel this year for Iron Council, but I would expect Clarke to win this award.

At any rate it's good to see Donaldson, and his return to Covenant, in such lauded company.

[dlbpharmd]

Thanks Ainulindale!

[safetyjedi]

Man it would be great if we could vote!

[Lord Mhoram]

Good news, Ainulindale!

[lurch]

...A..All is right with the world. Things are as they should be. Thanks for the update...MEL

[MrKABC]

That is FREAKIN AWESOME. I am glad to see SRD's name in the lights with such august company. Good for him!

[Seareach]

Is this considered a highly prestigious Fantasy award?

Is that a stupid question?

[DRL]

this is only the begining and im allready weting my pants with anticipation! go srd go!!

[safetyjedi]

When will the award be announced?

Also, DRL. "go and change your armor", I mean pants.

[Variol Farseer]

Is this considered a highly prestigious Fantasy award?

Is that a stupid question?

It is considered so extremely prestigious and exalted that some of the voters think it's wasted if it goes to any book that the general public has heard of. There have been some, hmm, shall we say offbeat winners over the years.

For instance, Neil Gaiman's superb American Gods was nominated in 2002, but lost to LeGuin's The Other Wind. The previous year, books by Sean Stewart and the bizarre Tim Powers (I like Tim Powers, no fooling, but man, he is bizarre) beat both Guy Kay's Lord of Emperors and China Miéville's Perdido Street Station. Steven Erikson and Peter Beagle lost in 2000. Kay and de Lint lost in 1999. Back in 1997, George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones lost to something called Godmother Night by Rachel Pollack.

It is very much a writer's award, not a reader's award, because it is given by whatever group of (mostly) writers and editors attend each year's World Fantasy Convention, and whichever subset of those bothers to vote. If it were a reader-driven vote like the Hugo Awards, then Jonathan Strange and Mr. Morrell would be the runaway winner this year. But it's much more like the Nebulas. Some of the voters are just too self-consciously hip. Some appear to be working off various grudges by refusing to vote for anybody who sells more books than they do personally. And some just, as a matter of ideological purity, won't vote for anything that shows any sign of being influenced by J.R.R. Tolkien. That doesn't bode well for SRD, I'm afraid.

I do know one thing. There is no award in fantasy with anything like the selling power of the Hugos or the Nebs. When publishing people hear that you've won a Hugo, they go 'ooh'. When they hear you've won a Nebula, they go 'ahh'. When they hear you've won a WFA, sometimes they just go.

[Ainulindale]

It is considered so extremely prestigious and exalted that some of the voters think it's wasted if it goes to any book that the general public has heard of.

I think it's a mistake to assume that the books aren't quality because the general public doesn't know about. I would argue the majority of the authors the general public does know about represent the worst of the genre. But that's subjective.

Power's and Stewart's novels were absolutely exceptional IMHO, as is the bulk of their work. Powers is a virtual god in speculative fiction

Steven Erikson and Peter Beagle lost in 2000. Kay and de Lint lost in 1999. Back in 1997, George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones lost to something called Godmother Night by Rachel Pollack.

Epic fantasy hardly ever wins genre awards, and although I enjoy some of them a great deal, I would argue Steven Erikson has never written a book that was the best in any given year or was even close - he should have been happy to have been nominated.

I agree, Donaldson is IMHO the absolute longshot of the list. Clarke, just won the Hugo, and I anticipate she will win the WFA as well, if not her then Wolfe whose duology is being combined, which makes him a strong canidate IMHO.

Mieville has won the Arthur C. Clarke, and Locus this year for best novel, but had poor Hugo showing (although he was on the shortlist).

Just by those books listed, I would have it like this:

Clarke
Wolfe
Stewart & Mieville
Donaldson

It's a huge advanatge for Wolfe to have his duology considered one book, but I think this is Clarke's award. Stewart and Mieville, both wrote excellent novels IMHO that's Stewart's best and Mieville's worst but both are excellent, the Donaldson nominee although good to see, I have to admit it shocked me.

That's an exceptional group of authors, it would just be hard for me to believe that if they gave it to a high/epic fantasy that it wouldn't be given to Gene Wolfe - and deservingly so.

Really 2000 is the only year I really disagreed with, Thraxas was not an awful book, but compared to the competition it was IMHO the least worthy.

When will the award be announced?

Nov 3-6.

[danlo]

The WFA is nothing new for SRD--TCTC was nominated in '78, SRD was a judge in '80 and won for Best Collection with Reave the Just and Other Tales in '00

[Variol Farseer]

I think it's a mistake to assume that the books aren't quality because the general public doesn't know about.

I think it's a mistake to assume that I've made that assumption.

But I find it highly significant that, as you said —

Epic fantasy hardly ever wins genre awards

— when that is the most popular subgenre of fantasy by a considerable margin. I should point out, by the way, that epic fantasy is ineligible to win most SFF genre awards; the WFA is about the only major award that an epic fantasy could win, and that virtually never happens. (If the Mythopoeic Award is major, then there are two; but that award is so little known to the general readership that I hesitate to call it 'major'.)

But perhaps the principal reason why epic fantasy books so rarely win the WFA is that very few epic fantasy writers attend WFC. You can't vote for the awards unless you have at least a supporting membership in the con. I don't think I've ever seen more than about three authors in that subgenre on the member list for any WFC since I went to my first one in 1998. SRD is generally there, and I saw Robert Jordan at WFC in Montreal in 2001; but most of the big-selling authors appear to eschew that venue, and the big sellers are especially concentrated in epic fantasy.

For my money, the WFA combines the worst features of the Hugos and Nebulas. Like the Hugos, anybody can vote for it by buying a membership; like the Nebulas, it represents insiders' taste exclusively, and the voice of the average reader is not heard in that land. You may have a low enough opinion of the average reader to consider this a good thing. I don't. The lack of viable mechanisms for feedback and criticism is, in my opinion, one of the major reasons for the stultification of the field in recent years.

In my own laughable excuse for a career, I have a view of awards that could not even be called ambiguous. If ever I am so much as nominated for an award — any award — I intend to spend the next six months figuring out what I did wrong. If I ever win one, I shall look for career opportunities in the tuna-fishing industry. But that's only me, and in this case the word 'only' is extremely well justified.

[Ainulindale]

I jsut want to note this is not directed a Variol, I just have some strong feeligns about this topic -

when that is the most popular subgenre of fantasy by a considerable margin.

Again, I don't popularity has anything to do with a judgement of perceived quality. I know a lot of people who love and buy Fords as well - they know it's not the best car.

Dan Brown is outselling everyone, perhaps we should give him the Pulitzer, or the Booker.

If we went by these parameters we would give Rowling the award every year hands down. No one is more popular, and it's not even close.

I should point out, by the way, that epic fantasy is ineligible to win most SFF genre awards; the WFA is about the only major award that an epic fantasy could win

That is an absolute fallacy - The Locus Awards have been won by Epic Fantasy (All of Martin's Book has won)

Lois McMaster Bujold just won the Nebula and the Hugo for her various Chalion work.

Many Epic Fantasy authors don't win the Hugo because they aren't members - that is their own damn fault for not wishing to be a participate. I was at Worldon, a huge spectacle of fans, publishers, and authors, a first rate production. The mainstream authors would rather support some video-game convention or other media based convention that there lame books are associated with. It goes along with your statement here:

But perhaps the principal reason why epic fantasy books so rarely win the WFA is that very few epic fantasy writers attend WFC

I've spoken to several authors wh a re not criticaly well received that talk about how insular the genre is and how stuck up some segments of the industry are and thus avoid certain cons (WorldCon etc). They call this the 'Locus Crowd" in some cases. You know what? Damn them. 1000's of people from all over the world went to Worldcon, which IMHO is the genre's best show annually, then they come on messagboards or blogs and whine about the so called "literati", while they have been getting fat off of sub-par work for decades.

They want respect? Write a book we haven't read dozens of times over. Write a book not on the merits of past authors, Write a book that isn't completely accessbile by 6 year olds, and you may get some respect from adults.

and the voice of the average reader is not heard in that land.

I just don't view this as a negative, if we did this every years ballot would be filled with mediocrity. Again Rowling would win, hands down, there is no other author that is even close in popularity the numbers do not lie. Who woufl be on the ballot? Terry Brooks, Robert Jordan, Terry Goodkind, RA Salvatore and Rowling? Maybe Paoulini? I don't want to here from the popular crowd personally - sales number indicate a taste that is more then questionable. That said, if my preferences were different perhaps I would have an issue with it. It is subjective. At this point I look at these nominess and I see Clarke, Mieville, Wolfe and it's hard to argue with.

Epic Fantasy doesn't win simply because the sub-genre is full of absolute clones of each other - what book should have won that didn't in epic fantasy recently? Perhaps if they weren't so reliant a 10 books tombs someone may give them consideration. Why should book 6 of " the epic adventures of the boy with a magic talisman", be considered to be able to stand alone with other books? It's not fair in that standpoint, as most books based in series are absolutely reliant upon prior books or otherwise make no sense.

You know who votes for the Hugo? Fans who care enough to support the convention, which I would assocaite with die-hard fans. I voted for Clarke to win the Hugo. Why? Because I'm stuck up ? Because I have a hidden agenda? To stick it to another author perhaps? No, IMHO it was the best book released last year.

You may have a low enough opinion of the average reader to consider this a good thing.

I don't have a low opinion of anyone. I do think if we took the top 20 sellers in fantasy last year you would see mediocrity make up the majority of the list. I don't have a low opinion, simply a difference of opinion. I simply don't agree that the authors who are consisitently fan favorites (by sales) are nearly the best in the genre. In fact I consider most of them the gutter of the genre. Again that is subjective, but besides Rowling, Brooks and Jordan are probably the (when I say probably I mean I already have researxhed this, and please nobody bring up the Donaldson number he has sold 6-8 million coppies of Covenant books, I am aware of the ridiculous "outsold Tolkien" advertisement that some people swear by, that is of course absurd, as I have had to point out a half dozen times this year) are the 2 biggest fantasy sellers in recent times - they are also two of the worst authors I have ever read.

At any rate, Im not too keen on getting int oa debate about epic fantasy. it's a tired debate that has been goign for years constantly o never major and minor genre board.

what we maybe should do is focus on a particualr book you think should have won in recent years and didn't - that may be interesting

[Old Darth]

Congrats to Donaldson and the other nominees.