Amnion ship names

[Usivius]

Anyone else find it distracting that these cold-hearted, logic race of aliens would name thier ships in such a human manner? 'Calm Horizons'?... I like the authors humour, but in the context of the story, is this some silly way of trying to reassure the humans that their massive, bulbous hunk of steel and deadly weapons is really cute and cuddly? Although it was not be as interesting to read a series number (W-57683), but it would seem more in line with this alien species...
(I sent a question to SRD on the GI, but I was curious if anyone else found this as distracting as I do)

[Nathan]

Doubtless they have different names for them in their own language.

The names given to the ships are purely for the benefit of those speaking English (or whatever language the human race have chosen).
I can only assume that the Amnion think that by naming their defensives (also an interesting name for a warship, this didn't distract you as well?) in peaceful ways they will convince humans that they are a peaceful people.

[Loredoctor]

I agree, Nathan. I think they want us to think their ships are not 'combat-inclined'. And it's the Amnion way of naming their ships; it reflects their nature and viewpoint.

[Nav]

Yeah, I think SRD might actually have written that the Amnion name their ships that way so as to appear less threatening. Of course if I was trying to appear less threatening than I actually was I'd be less inclined to classify my ship as "Behemoth" class. Maybe "Fluffy Kitten" class or something.

[Usivius]

"Ok sh!t, its an Amnion 'Fluffy Kitten' class battlewagon, "The Ball of Yarn"! Let's get the hell out of here!!!!"

[Nav]

"Oh my God! Sir, we can't retreat. The Hamster Class Philanthropist Hugs and Kisses has cut us off!"

[Usivius]

[Revan]

I agree, Nathan. I think they want us to think their ships are not 'combat-inclined'. And it's the Amnion way of naming their ships; it reflects their nature and viewpoint.

I disagree with you there Loremaster. I don't think the Amnioni want to do that. It's like saying they want to "lure us in a false sense of security". This is not the Amnion way of thinking. They've never shown any such insight as to do that. And they wouldn't dictate their actions to try and dampen an emotion they niether feel or understand; by this I mean human fear.

What I find is more intriguing is the fact they call their ships "defensives".

[Loredoctor]

I never said 'lull into a false sense of security'. Remember that in the Gap series the Amnion actually don't want a war; they know it will cost them too much. So they want us to think that their ships are not 'combat inclined'. They wouldn't be that stupid to think humans would ignore a Defensive. What they want is a defensive - their ships - but to offset human concerns.

[Revan]

No, you're right there. Amnion don't want a war. However, they do desire that every human be mutated. Or not desire, they're thinking is too single minded for that, but it's in their genetic material (or so I have gleaned from reading the stories, I could be wrong however) to want to turn all earth based life to their own. They don't understand human fear; and they don't care for it. Human life essentially means nothing to them, nor do human fears. They wouldn't go about thinking "We'll call this ship this particular name so humans don't think we're a danger."

[Loredoctor]

Good points, but I think they do understand fear. But it's the context of the fear that is different; Milos Amnion and Marc Vestabule experienced fear in the context of their experiences.

[Revan]

Ah, they didn't experience fear. They remembered experiencing it. They weren't actually scared really at any point. If you remember Sorus, I'll quote her:

Apparently calm, Marc Vestabule released one hand to take a reciever from the communications board and jack it into his ear. Then he accepted a pickup from the communications first. At once - but without any discernible urgency - he began to make alien noises into the pickup.
That was the thing Sorus Chatelaine distrusted or loathed or feared about the Amnion. None of them ever showed any urgency; any ordinary mortal dread or desperation.

They don't experience or feel the fear they themselves once did when they were human. They merely remember it.

[Loredoctor]

That doesnt mean they dont experience fear. If you read book 5 again there is a section where Vestabule actually experiences fear.

[Revan]

What section? I haven't got book five with me at the moment. but if you refer to me where abouts it is, I'll find it.

And in any case, if I am wrong; which is quite possible, (because the way Donaldson wrote these aliens is simply amazing. The Amnion are not like normal "aliens" you see in Sci Fi. They're actually alien. We can't understand them. Which is genius of Donaldson in my opinion) and Vestabule did indeed experience fear. Perhaps that is because why I have stated, because he remembers it. The other Amnion have no such resources. So it could be said that Vestabule is indeed 'One of a kind'; and thus is the only one of the Amnioni to know fear.

[Loredoctor]

But my theory is that the Amnion have to experience fear otherwise they could not exist; fear is essential in evolution.
But good points, Revan.

[Revan]

But my theory is that the Amnion have to experience fear otherwise they could not exist; fear is essential in evolution.
But good points, Revan.

"fear is essential in evolution."

ahhh, very true. But only for humans. But you are completely right in saying this. Donaldson himself says the same thing, albeit in a more complicated fasion, in the Ancillary Documentation "Datacores".

The impulse toward chaos is a manifestation of human-kind's inbred knowledge that the best way to survive any danger is to run away from it. This instinct focuses on the resources of individual imagination and cunning, rather than on the potentialities of concerted action. It’s most common overt expression involves an insistence upon self-determination (freedom from restriction), individual liberty (freedom from requirement), and nonconformity (freedom from cause and effect). However such insistence is primarily a rationalization of the desire to flee – to survive by escape.
Therefore the impulse toward chaos is also aggressive. The very act of escape breaks down systems of order: it contradicts safety, avoids stability, defies cause and effect. Like the instinct for order, it fights to create and defend the conditions it seeks.
Nevertheless stability and predictability themselves would be impossible without chaos. Chaos exerts the pressure which requires order to shape itself accurately.

So yes, you are right.

But just because this applies to human life, it does not mean it applies to the Amnion. This is why i said the way Donaldson wrote the Amnion was amazing. Because we don't understand them. Who's to say the way their evolution evolves has to run along with the way ours does. Amnioni (the way donaldson wrote them) are not human, and are not run or evolved the way humans are. So fear does not have to be essential to the way they evolve and grow.

[Loredoctor]

Excellent post, Darth!
However, because the amnion would have evolved in a resource-limited environment (logically) there would be a competitive environment. Therefore, the amnion would experience fear as it is a biological necessity for survival. But what complicates the issue is the Amnion's Mind/Union nature. I think their fear is something unique. So I see your point and concede to some of what you are saying.

[Revan]

This has been an excellent discussion. For which I thank you Ur-Vile. However I don't think it can go any further until I show some evidence on the Amnion interpretation of human fear, which is in book five. I'll look for the proper quotes tonight, and bring book five in tomorrow.

[Loredoctor]

[Revan]

This is a quote from book five; from Marc Vestabule's point of view:

The Amnion did not comprehend terror or frenzy. They understood urgency: they were capable of haste. Their ded9cation to their own purposes was complete - and completely organic. But they were not genetically encoded for desperation. They could not encompass it.
Marc Vestabule still did.

But this doesn't mean I'm right. Something you said earlier occurs to me:

But what complicates the issue is the Amnion's Mind/Union nature.

Excellent point. And I understand it now in regards to this discussion; The Amnion Mind/Union, does indeed complicate the issue.

Due to this "Mind/Union", the Amnioni are single minded in their goals. What is one Amnioni's incentive is all Amnioni's incentive. They have no individual agendas or interspecies differences or variation in regards to their species aspirations. That is perhaps the reason why they do not need fear to evolve as we do. Humans all have their own goals, their own intentions; however the Amnioni are single minded. They might as well be one person; that is perhaps the reason why they do not need fear as we do.