the Future of the Land

[Lord Mhoram]

In the Second Chronicles, Covenant makes it clear he thinks that Sunder and Hollian are the future of the Land. Im not entirely sure I understand how he can think that. The two Stonedownors lack the lore and charisma the Lords. The little lore they possesed were Sunbane-related. Even using the krill and orcrest, they were still using the Sunbane in a sense. How can two people that lived under and used the Sunbane be able to lead a Sunbane-less Land?[/i]

[danlo]

If and when the 3rd Chrons come out I think u'll c a very different Revelstone- Sunder and Hollian may still b just as lost as TC as far as "power" and "lore" go but I think they'll b good, w/the Haruchai's help in uniting, or helping 2 change a number of settlements in the Land. I xpect SRD 2 have all sorts of help (and dangers) coming out of the woodwork tho. Then the time element comes in2 play--will Sunder and Hollian b alive when we return--will we meet their child? And what wonderous being this might b? Unfettered, Forestals, jherrinin, Raynhyn, Waynhim--more...might their child learn, some how, 2 wield the Staff of Law? could b wild!

[Skyweir]

actually danlo that is right .. If Sunder and Hollian represent the future of the Land .. then they also represent a new race of being that has been introduced to the Land ..

that is very interesting ..

Is this new race of being going to be more or less resilient to another immortal - LF? The possibilities are endless ..

And what of the haruchai?? and Ak Haru .... Ardenol?? It is going to be an intersting Land when we return .. we will see the marriage of these beings and the teachings of post-sunbane inhabitants with the lore which has been uncovered - the staff etcc .. it makes for a very interesting 3rd chorns ..

[hamako]

do we have any definite proof that a 3rd chronicles will be written?

[Skyweir]

we have SRD's word .. and some rumour that it may be currently a work in progress .. or so we are lead to believe ..

[hamako]

that'll do for me, thanks, I live in hope....

I disagree with the comments that Sunder & Hollian were sparse in lore. I thought they were pretty well versed considering the lore-less environment that the Land had become. Armed with the krill and the orcrest and a history of resurrection (Hollian) , I think that they had an eventful future ahead. Not taking into account the facts that the Land had been healed and would no doubt be teeming with Earthpower. the possibilities are unbounded I think.

As for timescales, it would be surprising to see the 3rd chrons taking place in Sunder and Hollian's lifetime, especially if we are to see the resurrection of Foul. I don't think that there should be a problem with TC reappearing. If we are to believe that he is inextricably linked with the AOT and wild magic, then it would be entirely reasonable for him to be about the Land in some form - maybe he is the source of some central part of the Land's essence, becoming alloyed into the very fabric of the Land during it's healing by LA. Who knows? Plenty of scope though.

As I firmly believe that TC & LF are part of the same persona, he'll be back too - looking good.

[Lord Mhoram]

About the Despiser(I hate saying Lord Foul, it kinda sounds corney) being back in the third Chrons, Im not sure how SRD is gonna explain his resurrection again. Maybe a new evil will arise from OUTSIDE the Land. And dont forget those remaining Ravers.
Donaldson himself said that Covenant would return in an interview. He made a comment about the Law of Death being too badly broken for him not to return.

Now, about Sunder and Hollian. I agree, Hamako, that Sunder and Hollian did have more lore then the average Sunbane era Land inhabitant, but the Lords had more and even they had numerous problems leading the Land(but I think they did a damn good job) but they had charisma, Lore, Staffs,support more then then Sunder and Hollian have. However, they[Sunder and Hollian] do have the krill, orcrest and the Haruchai. But I question their ability to wield the krill and orcrest effictively w/out the Sunbane. Maybe Im wrong, but I doubt that theyre the future of the Land. And if they are, the Land has a bleak future.

[Skyweir]

I am not sure who said that they were the future of the Land .. but why not? I think the reference is to the child Hollian was carrying .. that in that childs birth there will be the beginnings of a new blood in the Land (so to speak) .. And I think Hamako raises a good point as to the influence Sunder and Hollian will have over the child and thus the future generations of the Land ..

I concur with the view that Sunder and Hollian were not too shabby in regards to their knowledge and use of lore .. but you are right to comment that this lore was a lore furnished under the sunbane .. yet lore nevertheless ..

Sunder's dad was a man solid in the true lore .. at least a believer in the old way ..

And as far as LF goes .. this is not the first time he has been defeated .. and lost substance .. but he is not dead .. no he is quite alive (immortal) ..

there are many evils in the 'earth' .. and as you say .. a new evil may be introduced in the 3rd chorns .. but not to replace LF .. as the arch evil .. no I suspect LF will be in the chrons as long as TC is ..

[Lord Mhoram]

To answer your first question, Skyweir, Covenant said Sunder and Hollian were the future of the Land. About their child, he could be the future of the Land, although Im not sure what that child is going to be. What I mean is, his mother isnt acutally alive if I remember correctly. I really cant wait for the Thrid Chronicles.

[Skyweir]

and that is the point good Watchman ... his mother was not 'alive' .. she had become something very different to her previously mortal self ..

so her child .. may .. also be something very different .. bringing a new blood to the Land .. a blood distinguised by its lack of .. perhaps mortal restraints/limitations ..

a very intersting element to be added to the 3rd chrons .. when they get written ..

[hamako]

About Sunder & Hollian's lore - don't forget that the Sunbane was corrupted Earthpower. Earthpower being the source of it all. So I think they have the potential to be very powerful. WHere did the Lords start.? It was Berek who found the Earthpower's potential and look what he became.

Here's an idea - I think Hollian's child could be the new enemy - it's been dead and raised - lot of potential there I think, an unborn baby being subjected to the perversion of the Law of Death?

Also, in killing Caer Caveral, wasn't the Law of Life broken as well? "No taking of life is gentle...This Law also must be broken" Words of Caer Caveral in WGW.

So we have no Law of Death, no Law of Life, a resurrected eh brand, the krill (that has slain the last of the Forestals - Forestal power welded into it??), and a resurrected unborn child of two fairly outstanding individuals.

If LF can reappear, so can Covenant as the Law of Death allows all this, and that's assuming that they were both dead in the first place.

LF rebuilt himself by camping out next to the Earthpower and tainted it in the process.

If you read some of my arguments before, you'll know that I think LF & TC are the same. TC wiped out LF aka his own despair/spite by denying it's existence - laughing in the face of it and thus effacing it entirely. The seed was still there though (his disease??) and over time using the Earthpower, LF reappeared warping it in the process.

The pattern of LF's fall in the 2nd chrons is similar - TC wipes out LF by using his own power against himself - his acceptance of his own power/potence renders LF's attacks useless and his despair/LF is wiped out - TC accepts his place. the implications, his pivot in creation (the AOT??) and becomes untouchable - "despairless". How can LF exist in the face of this?

Now, just after all these events, we see an unrivalled display of Earthpower, wielded thru LA. What if there is some vestige of LF around - do we have potentially corrupted Earthpower again?

Don't even think that he won't be back!!

Food for thought?

[Lord Mhoram]

Interesting points there Hamako...... Hollians child... a bad guy? It could work, but Hollian and Sunder were servants of the Land, how could their child be evil? But it could happen.

About LF, he came back after the First Chronicles because there was no Staff to wield the Earthpower so he corrupted it. Now theres a new Staff of Law, therefore there is a Law to protect the Earthpower, and Earthpower to protect the Land. How will LF come back? Im skeptical that he will. There are other evils and potential evils. The Ravers (I keep coming back to them they fascinate me), maybe an unknown evil from outside the Land. In TOT we saw that outside the Land there are other evils and people that have hidden agendas, Kareyn, the Elohim(arent necessarily evil). An evil could come from another far away Land excluding those that I just mentioned. And as Hamako said, maybe a new evil from Sunder and Hollians child. Many different possibilities and alternatives to the Despiser. But never assume his death, Im not. He may come back.

[JD]

If I remember correctly Foul can be beaten, but not totally destroyed since Despite opposes Good, and the two need to counteract with each other. As far as Sunder and Hollian, they bear witness to the Earthpowers potential, and can be used to convince the people of the land.

[caamora]

I agree with JD. TC even says to LA after he died and he was a spectre that LF cannot "die". Rather, his power is reduced for a time. LF is an immortal. However, I sure would love to see a new evil.

[Skyweir]

thats exactly right caamora .. Foul cannot 'die' .. he is immune to death .. being an 'immortal' .. I dont know if there can be such a thing as immortal death anyway .. it seems like an oxymoron ..<gee that word seems to be spelt wrong > a contradiction of fundamental terms ..

[CovenantJr]

Quite. And as regards Foul requiring corruptable Earthpower/absence of the Staff of Law in order to recuperate - he recovered after he was thrashed to within an inch of his life by the Ritual of Desecration, and the Staff and the various Laws were intact then...

I think LF will recover given nothing more than simply time; perhaps the Earthpower assisited his recuperation after the First Chronicles, but I by no means believe it was necessary to him. All IMHO, of course...

[Skyweir]

NO .. I absolutely agree!! ..

.. LF did regenerate following the RoD .. and it seems that he naturally does regenerate .. and ultimately regain his substance/form .. as he gets stronger ..

How is LF kept down/kept powerless so that he may not regain his form and great strength .. that is the question ..

.. and there may not be an answer ..

.. constant vigilence by TC?? ..

[Lord Mhoram]

Covenant, watching LF..... Interesting. It could happen! He has a lotta time on his hands

[Tohrm]

There is another point that nobody here has stopped to consider. Both Sunder and Hollian were in Andelain! Think about it. Who else resides in Andelain? Doesn't anybody think that the old lords will at least steer them towards finding the lore needed to resist LF? And also, they could give some very good advice from time to time.
Sure, ther old earthpower has been weakened from its' time from being warped by the sunbane. But that does not mean that it will actually be weaker, just it won't work exactly the same as it did before. I believe that Sunder and Hollian, as well as their child will find a way to utilize the earthpower that is left in the land, as well as find new ways to use it that have not been previously considered.

[Skyweir]

interesting point ..

.. mmm .. the spectres .. Covenants dead .. also being an influence in the raising of the child?? .. and the tutoring of the new forrestals ..

Well why not? .. HT -Caer Caveral .. had a tutor in Caerroil Wildwood! .. It is not likely that Sunder and Hollian will be left alone in Andelain ..

That makes for a very interesting premise .. imagine a being .. not mortal .. raised in such an environment .. with both the Law of Death and th Law of Life broken .. ?