Yellow Gold Wielder

[Nerdanel]

In The One Tree we were introduced to Kasreyn of the Gyre and the power of the yellow gold. To this date this particular aspect of the Second Chronicles has been hanging in the air, never mentioned again. In fact I believe it to be the only one such among significant plot points. Knowing that SRD planned for the Last Chronicles with the Second, I suspect yellow gold is about to make a major comeback.

This brings us to the question of where to get yellow gold. One possibility is Kasreyn's old store and other similar that might exist. A more intriguing idea is that yellow gold was brought to the Land. If Sheriff Lytton is married he would wear a ring for it, yellow gold of course. Sandy probably doesn't have an engagement ring but she might have other gold jewellery. In any case, yellow gold has potential to play a very significant part in the plot. It might not be as powerful as white gold, but powerful nonetheless.

Just consider it: Sheriff Lytton, yellow gold wielder who got into the Land by accident by getting shot near enough the Summoning, when it was unexpected by Roger that Lytton would be in that position. That kind of thing could really turn the plot unstable and throw Lord Foul's careful plans into disarray where Linden and everyone failed.

Lytton used to think Roger wouldn't go to the Haven Farm but would instead escape by car. What made the Sheriff change his mind? Was it just thoroughness or an old man in a robe?

[wayfriend]

Interesting question. Kasreyn's admitted investigations seem to indicate that gold itself has power, and that there is some about.

But I think SRD is going to twist out of this one.

Gold, after all, is only a means of articulation. Kasreyn's was circles. If he found circles of gold more apt for articulation than other circles, well, the power still comes from Kasreyn, not the gold.

In other words, I don't thing gold has power in the Land: I think that gold is a superior substance for articulating power. But it still is up to each person to discover if it is useful, for them - SRD's view of power is that it is ultimately personal.

If Lytton's ring is nothing more than a socially demanded bauble, then it will not have any power for him. (Someone else might acquire it, though. In fact, Lytton may also want to guard his fillings!)

[Akasri]

Was it explicitly mentioned that Lytton has a yellow gold ring? I can't remember. If it was specifically mentioned, then I would say that it may be significant later on. Otherwise, why mention such a meaningless detail?

[Nerdanel]

Akasri:

I don't think there was ever any mention of Lytton's jewelry. On the other hand, if there had been, the plot connection would have been too easy to make for us to be properly surprised. On the other hand yellow gold wedding rings are so common they cannot be called deus-ex-machina if they suddenly come into play.

I think there is a high likelihood of yellow gold becoming a plot point later on. Lytton is simply my best guess as to how that would happen.

Wayfriend:

This is an unclear issue but I've thought that while individual aptitudes may vary, everyone has the potential to learn to use any implement of power in the Land, as opposed to a situation where magic users are a genetically determined class. In essence magic would be the technology of the Land. Of course that doesn't mean Lytton would have any idea of how to use his (hypothetical) ring.

[aliantha]

The idea of yellow gold having some power, or acting as a conduit for power, in the Land is intriguing. However, Lytton ain't bringing it in. A deus-ex-machina is exactly what that would be, and SRD would have to be a pretty sloppy writer to rely on it -- which he isn't.

Wow, I can see all kinds of problems with this idea. Can you imagine Sheriff Lytton's reaction to the Land? Ceasures and ur-viles and Esmer, oh my! It would take a whole novel to even get him up to speed, and then to convince him that his wedding ring was magic??

Nah. Entertaining to think about; not gonna happen.

[dlbpharmd]

Well said, aliantha, and I tend to agree. During Linden's summoning there is a statement to that effect - neither Lytton or Sandy are in the Land.

[wayfriend]

During Linden's summoning there is a statement to that effect - neither Lytton or Sandy are in the Land.

Do you remember where or what that statement was?

[dlbpharmd]

I'll get the exact page # for you tonight when I get home. I believe the statement is on page 1 of Part 1.

[Nerdanel]

Barton Lytton had probably survived. And Sandy Eastwall might live still. Prostrate, they had sprawled below the wild gunfire. They had no part in this.

Linden thinks in close 3rd person that Lytton and Sandy had no part in this but I am of the opinion Linden is wrong about several things in this book. We cannot take her as an ultimate authority.

What we know is that both Lytton and Sandy are wounded and bleeding. Both appear unconscious. In addition Sandy is closer to the center of the summoning than Linden. Lytton isn't that far away either.

He struck again, despite Linden's attempt to distract him. This time, Sandy slumped to the stone and lay still.

The heavy slug caught Lytton high on his right shoulder, kicking him off his feet with the force of a thunderclap. He landed on his back without a sound. His arms and legs recoiled, bouncing. Then he lay still.

Linden didn't see Sandy or Lytton when she entered the Land, but she didn't see Roger or Jeremiah either. The others could simply have landed in a different place without her being none the wiser.

[Variol Farseer]

I can't see Lytton being in the Land. Can't imagine any use for him. The mere suggestion that he might have been dragged into the summoning reminds me of the arrival in prehistoric Narnia in The Magician's Nephew:

'Bother!' thought Digory. 'We didn't want to bring him along. My hat, what a picnic.'

[wayfriend]

What Nerdanel quoted above seems to be the reference dlbpharmd was making. (?)

They had no part in this.

Perhaps that is the author's way of letting us know that Sandy and Lytton are not to be of further concern.

But I don't think their not being mortally wounded is sufficient to keep them from being summoned. Covenant wasn't, several times. Linden wasn't.

----------

Meanwhile, this just in!

Karen: Hello! Hope this finds you well.

I have read a couple of the questions submitted re the machinations of various characters in Chronicles and how essential their 'plots' are to the storyline and the outcome.

The answer I came up with to these questions myself before reading some of your own answers was that these needed to be so complex due to the fact that Lord Foul COULDN'T in fact just muscle in and somehow obtain the ring if it fell into other hands etc, because as stated by Lord Mhorham in TPTP, Covenant IS the white gold. This would mean that the ring simply couldnt be found/stolen by someone else as it would not have the same properties/power. Of course I was then confused in the 2nd Chronicles by the fact that Linden Avery appears to be almost some sort of Demi-God in terms of what she can do with her own abilities and Covenant's ring.

If Covenant IS the essence of the wild magic which is unleashed by the white gold, how is it that Linden then becomes the key character with regards to its useage?

Am I just being very dense here in seeing the explanation?

Thanks!

Regards

Karen
____________________________________________________________

I think the point on which I've failed to be clear is that it's a question of *degree*. White gold is the instrument of wild magic. Any passing stranger with a bit of lore and/or sensitivity could get *some* use out of the ring. And the more lore and/or sensitivity that someone-not-Covenant has, the more useful the ring will be. But only the ring's true wielder, someone who has an organic relationship with that specific ring (Covenant, Joan), can access *all* of the power of wild magic. The Elenas and Lindens of the Land can evoke a LOT of power from white gold; but a LOT is a far cry from the near-absolute power required to destroy the Arch of Time.

Lord Foul has no use for a LOT of power: he needs near-absolute power. Hence the somewhat oblique focus of his machinations.

Does that help?

(10/08/2005)

[dlbpharmd]

The Elenas and Lindens of the Land can evoke a LOT of power from white gold; but a LOT is a far cry from the near-absolute power required to destroy the Arch of Time.

If this is true, then Linden's fears of destroying the AoT by using wild magic are unfounded.

[Warmark]

So in theory fatal Revenant could just be Linden Blasting ANYONE that gets in her way with the WG and not even caring!

[Nerdanel]

Now I'm officially confused. SRD's answer created to me more questions than it answered.

What is "an organic relationship with a specific ring"?

The organic relationship sounds more than just having been given the ring voluntarily, but in the past a lot has been made about voluntary giving. Lord Foul's relationship with Covenant's ring could be summed as that he really, really wanted to have it, voluntarily given or "voluntarily" given. When Covenant finally gave the ring to Foul, Foul had immediately enough power to blow up the Arch of Time.

On the other hand Roger did not buy a white gold ring from a shop even though he had numerous chances, which could mean that it would not have counted as an organic relationship. Roger could also have seduced and married an ugly girl of a socioeconomic group that marries early and insisted on white gold wedding rings. Again, this might have been too calculated for it to work for Roger but if the ugly girl was in love, she could have become a white gold wielder, but with Joan that might not have been necessary.

This brings us to the point of whether Ravers (as I think Jehannum was in Roger) were in the habit of lying like Lord Foul apparently isn't or if they depended on Aes Sedai style answers and nobody ever asking the right questions to keep the fact of their possession secret. (I should start combing through the books but I have only the latest at hand.) Would Jehannum be able to lie that he loved some girl or does he lack the patience for such a non-violent charade?

Perhaps it was nothing more than that Lord Foul had announced that no Ravers with organic relationships to white gold rings would be translated back anywhere they could use said white gold rings, or that Jehannum had failed to grasp how non-extraordinary white gold was in the "real world".

Is the "organic relationship" a force multiplier or an override code to full power? Is the "organic relationship an on/off thing or are there degrees of relationship or perhaps first degrees and then at some point an override?

Was Lord Foul capable of blowing up the Arch of Time because his organic relationship filled the requirements for full power or because with his native power he could max out the ring with a sub-optimal organic relationship?

And if the hypothetical power boost exists, is it really multiplicative, instead of, say, exponential? Is there even a sensible measurement scale for the strength of an organic connection? I want mathematical formulas!

As an example of a somewhat similar system, Tolkien's palantírs have a right-of-use system that is on/off, multiplicative, lacking a maximum power value, and based on human legalities which take into account bloodlines and government positions.

What I think could be significant is that IIRC (I really miss that bookshelf) Covenant never actually gave his ring to Linden. Linden just picked it up on the floor. That would meant that if anyone of the good guys wanted to access the full power of the ring she would have to give it to him, which could be problematic since Covenant is dead and can be commanded. Perhaps Covenant could give the ring to someone properly this time and avoid that mess... provided the Covenant is the real Covenant and not someone like a slightly weathered version of Roger.

Also, would Lord Foul still be able to break the Arch with Covenant's ring if he took it by force from Linden? If the answer to this is yes, I think the only reason she still has the ring is because Joan is in the slow process of breaking the Arch anyway and Foul wants some extra weapons against the Creator, like the Illearth Stone or a corrupted version of the Staff of Law.

And if Covenant took the ring by force would he still have his organic connection?

Speaking of Sheriff Lytton's entirely hypothetical yellow gold ring, does he have an organic connection to it and is the yellow gold even capable of such things? How widespread are those organic connections anyway? Is Linden having one with the Staff of Law? Does Anele share the connection or does he lack it because Linden didn't stay around to give the Staff to anyone? Do organic connections get severed when you donate an item? Does Covenant still have his organic connection to the white gold ring which he gave to Lord Foul? If Covenant had dropped dead in Lord Foul's Bane, would there have been any way for anyone to access the full power of his ring ever again? If Covenant and Joan on their honeymoon had went to a sauna together, took their rings off because of their high conductivity of heat, and afterwards took each the wrong ring (which they didn't notice as Joan had large hands for a woman), what would have happened to their organic connections to their rings?

[burgs]

I believe Covenant's organic relationship to the ring is this: it's his wedding ring.

Regarding yellow gold - white gold has significance in The Land only because it doesn't exist in The Land. Yellow gold already exists. It would have no power, or we would see lots of Lords running around with rings on their finger with inscriptions like: "One ring to rule them all..."

[dlbpharmd]

I believe Covenant's organic relationship to the ring is this: it's his wedding ring.

I agree. Covenant's ring connects him to Joan, who has a similar ring, and she also is a wild magic wielder.

[jelerak]

I think that it all relates to white gold being an alloy, whereas yellow gold is pure. That is why white gold is foreign to The Land where yellow gold is native to it.

As when Covenant was transformed after stepping into the banefire. He became an alloy, as was the white gold.

I believe that yellow gold, while rare, is a substance natural to The Land. It is up to the ability of the user of that substance to tap out it's natural powers.

[dlbpharmd]

I'm drawing a blank here - where does it say that yellow gold exists in the Land? Kaseryn had the only yellow gold that I can remember.

[jelerak]

I have to admit that I am going off of memory. My last re-read of The One Tree was about a year or so ago. I could easily be way off base with my recollections.

Here at work, I don't have anything to reference to except my memory.

[burgs]

I think Kasreyn's ocular devices suffice as proof.