Things you'll never see in TCTC

Post by **Hellfire** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:29 am

I could not help but think of elves when I read about the Soaring Woodhelven.

Maybe because of the "elven" in the word.

Post by **danlo** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:40 pm

Boo! we want ur old Av back! (no David Bowie holding The Illearth Stone!

)

Post by **Ryzel** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:12 pm

The people of the land as elves have a certain support I think. They are definitely different from all other humans we know about. (Pre-Berek civilisation and the people of Bharatrain and the Haruchai) The others were all described as warlike or otherwise more like normal people than the people of the Land.

Post by **Hellfire** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 2:41 pm

danlo wrote:Boo! we want ur old Av back! (no David Bowie holding The Illearth Stone! )

I know I know it's corny.

But I just couldn't resist.

It is only temporary I promise

Post by **caamora** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:31 pm

I also like the way SRD made all the people of the Land human. It is easier to identify with them.

Post by **Ryzel** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:47 pm

It might be easier but that could be deceptive. In my opinion the humans of the Land are (and should be) difficult for us to understand.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 2:25 am

The humans of the Land are the epitome of goodness and sensitivity (at least in the first chronicles) but as the second chronicles begin you see their "true colors" in a sense as the survival instinct kicks in. Again we have an example of the collapse of a culture. There mode of production failed. Why do I keep spouting this anthro rethoric?
They are very much like their earthling cousins.

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 3:18 am

Ryzel:

I totally disagree with the ur-viles being like elves though. The cave-wights are maybe a bit like orcs and trolls, they certainly fill the same roles in the books (cannon fodder).

Actually, I said the ur-viles are like orcs, and the Waynhim are
like elves.

The Demondim spawn are offspring of a race that was once more
noble. They came about as a result of the machinations of Foul and
the Ravers. The orcs are actually degraded elves-- created as such
by the pre-Sauron bad guy. I think his name was Melekor or something
like that.

The cavewights remind me somewhat more of trolls than they do of
orcs, but I admit that it's a close call. The Giants are kinda Entish in
that they have a love of slow conversation.

Those of you who have read Tolkien, couldn't you just see
Treebeard and Saltheart Foamfollower have a good old fashioned
Entish/Giantish conversation?

The Ravers also remind me a lot of the Ringwraiths ... though maybe
the One Ring should remind me more of a Raver as it corrupts everyone
who wears it.

This isn't to say that SRD ripped off Tolkien. It's just to say that I see
a family resemblance between some of the characters.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:27 am

KaosArcana wrote:Those of you who have read Tolkien, couldn't you just see Treebeard and Saltheart Foamfollower have a good old fashioned
Entish/Giantish conversation?

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH yes!!! I've always imagined that very thing.

There was an episode of Star Trek TNG where a character describes another species. He says something like, "Their thoughts are glacial. They have a lovely, three-day ceremony for saying 'hello.'"

Post by **Skyweir** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:53 am

LOL ...

Hellfire .. I love your new av .. its a ripper!! From the labyrinth looks like

Bowie does fantasy

cool ..

and anyway .. Bowie is brilliant!

Post by **Ryzel** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:45 am

KaosArcana wrote:Actually, I said the ur-viles are like orcs, and the Waynhim are
like elves.

The Demondim spawn are offspring of a race that was once more
noble. They came about as a result of the machinations of Foul and
the Ravers. The orcs are actually degraded elves-- created as such
by the pre-Sauron bad guy. I think his name was Melekor or something
like that.

The ur-viles are far more clever than orcs usually are portrayed as being, and lore-wise too. Makes it difficult for me to see any similarities.

Where do you get this information about the Demondim (and their makers the Viles)?

Post by **variol son** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:57 am

the info comes from sumwhere in the chrons, but i thought that LF had a hand in the urviles. i remember the viles (sires of the demondim) being refered 2 as lofty (hence noble) & i think the demondim r refered 2 as peaceful. i no that it was herem & jehannum, prolly @ LF orders, who lead the demondim 2 spawn the urviles & the waynhim.

i c the whole connection with the corrupted creatures, but the urviles retained sum measure of wot they were (which can b seen in vain & his purpose, which directly opposed LF) & the orcs that melkor created out of corrupted & desecrated elves definately did not retain much @ all.

sum sui generis

Post by **Nav** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 1:23 pm

It's just occured to me that there is no reason why there couldn't be elves in TCTCs 'other realm' (clunky I know, but I mean the world rather than just The Land). Bearing in mind that this other planet was big enough for the seareach giants to get lost in, there's nothing to say that elves/orcs/whoever you want don't live on another, albeit distant, continent.

Post by **[Syl]** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:05 pm

Hmm, I always thought the relationship of Stonedowners to dwarves and Woodhelvin to be fairly facile.

Post by **Skyweir** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:04 am

yes and good point Navarino .. there is no reason that elvish folk .. do not exist somewhere in all the earth ..

i still see the elohim as elvish kinda folk m'self .. the Woodhelvin were described imho .. more as human-like .. wasnt Mhoram Woodhelvin?? i think he was *shrug* .. lol .. and i never pictured him as elvish .. not once

Post by **BeTrueUnbeliever** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:08 am

Sorry to drift from the whole accidental TLotR vs. TCTC (even though I did draw a connection between Elves and the Woodhelvin), but I would like to just say something that I have seen in TCTC, but is very rare. I believe that our TC only smiled genuinely twice. (If there are more times, please correct me.) Once at the end of TPTP "because he was alive" and then in TWL, he smiled for Joan. I'm not sure if that one counts or not though, seeing as how he smiled to reassure her and not because of anything that happened to him or that he did. I mean, he was sacrificing himself. But, I like the fact that TC smiles very very very rarely (genuinely, that is).

Post by **Nav** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:59 am

On the dromond, after he got it on with Linden.

Post by **BeTrueUnbeliever** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:08 am

Ah, yes, and then there is that one. Thank you. (BTW, I laughed out loud at that part... I found it quite hilarious.)

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:18 pm

Navarino:

On the dromond, after he got it on with Linden.

Heh.

Considering how long it had been for Covenant, I'm surprised he
wasn't doing high fives with Honninscave and Pitchwife. "Dude, I
so scored last night!"

(for the humor impaired.)

Post by **Hellfire** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 2:52 pm

Skyweir wrote:Hellfire .. I love your new av .. its a ripper!! From the labyrinth looks like Bowie does fantasy

Thanks. I'm just going thru a transitional phase right now with the avatars like so many of us are. Hopefully we can settle into something or "some one" soon.

Now to get back to the topic:
It is a great thing how we can identify with the humanity of the people of the land. It is an essential quality in a good work of fiction but I doubt we will ever see an exact alikeness to TLOFTR. But I haven't read any Tolkien so can't say how it is compared to SRD. Mayhap the fans of Tolkien are letting there own influences sway SRD's vision into something that is similiar.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Things you'll never see in TCTC