The Gradual Interview

For discussion about Stephen R. Donaldson's other works, Reed Stephens, group meetings, elohimfests, SRD sightings, and more.

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Xar
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Post by Xar »

dlbpharmd wrote:Here's another jewel of a question from Xar - we don't get to see enough of him around anymore. [Runes spoiler]
Spoiler
Pier Giorgio (Xar): Hello Steve! I was reading a question you recently answered, concerning the Haruchai and their obsessions with moral absolutes, and I was wondering - the Haruchai of the Last Chronicles, as far as we can see, appear to believe themselves the only ones who are worthy of preserving the Land, and they absolutely refuse to accept any criticism about their ways, their deeds, and the actions they undertook in order to become the Masters of the Land. In short, in their own eyes, they appear to believe themselves unassailable, and they exorcise the fear of being inadequate which was shown by the Haruchai in the Second Chronicles by establishing the tradition of the three Humbled, which should technically serve as reminders of past mistakes and lessons in humility. Even this tradition has become a source of pride though, as we learn that it is a great honor to be maimed into a Humbled, and the Haruchai actually fight to prove themselves worthy of this honor. So, in short, it seems that the Haruchai have a deep-rooted desire - perhaps on an unconscious level - to prove themselves to be the best, bar none. This is also reflected in the obsessive way all Haruchai we have known hone their physical skills to near-perfection.
Obviously, this attitude leads to a certain amount of metaphorical blindness (if I believe to be always right, and you show me evidence that I'm wrong, chances are I'll pretend I didn't see them and keep believing I'm always right), and so the Haruchai end up being generally impervious to outside influence - somewhat tragically, though, this imperviousness seems to apply more to their would-be allies than to their subtler foes.

Anyway, all of these considerations led me to wonder: Stave, who has shown the typical behaviour of the Masters throughout most of "Runes", eventually rejects at least part of this belief. Could the loss of his eye, which happens shortly before this event, also be taken to exemplify a "crack" in the imperviousness of the Haruchai (or at least Stave)? I mean: the marring of a Haruchai's near-perfect physical skills (and I would imagine that having one less eye does have an impact on those) could symbolize the shattering of Stave's preconceptions and a "crack" in the "moral armor" all Haruchai have? The Humbled are also maimed, but they do so voluntarily, and turn the maiming into a source of pride; whereas Stave's maiming seems to symbolize something more - although I could easily be reading too much into this event :)

I'm posting this more because of the thought and care you put into it than because I have anything substantial to add (although the theme is being explored further in "Fatal Revenant" even as we speak <grin>). But I do want to confirm that I intended the loss of Stave's eye pretty much the way you interpreted it. His "single" vision is both physically less and psychologically more than the ordinary "double" vision of the Haruchai.

(09/21/2005)
Aaaand... I'm back :) Hello everyone - I missed you :)
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Post by Furls Fire »

welcome back Xar!!! HUGGLESSSSSSSS |G
And I believe in you
altho you never asked me too
I will remember you
and what life put you thru.


~fly fly little wing, fly where only angels sing~

~this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you~

...for then I could fly away and be at rest. Sweet rest, Mom. We all love and miss you.

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Post by dlbpharmd »

Yes indeed - welcome back, Xar!
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Post by matrixman »

Fist and Faith wrote:Let's hear this part again, with emphasis added by me:
SRD wrote:Elena already has the only tool that could possibly be used to repair what she's done--but she's fighting for her life, and besides she's out of her mind.
Damned straight! What a wacko!


:lol:
Well, all I have to say is: you're not invited to the grand opening of my Temple of Elena next week. No springwine for you, faithless fisted philistine! And don't you even think about sneaking in and putting graffiti on our beloved statue of Elena! It took us a heckuva time cleaning her up the last time some deranged anti-Elena protester spray-painted "Elena Foul-wife" on her!

:x

Ahem, cough...on a different note, welcome back, Xar!
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Post by dlbpharmd »

faithless fisted philistine!
Damn....that's good!
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Post by wayfriend »

Spoiler
His "single" vision is both physically less and psychologically more than the ordinary "double" vision of the Haruchai.
(09/21/2005)
Spoiler
Remembering this:

I find it somewhat embarrassing to admit that [...] I didn't actually realize that eyelessness or blindness formed such a recurring (one might almost say incessant) theme in the "Covenant" books. And yet the pattern continues, as you'll discover (if you haven't already) in "The Last Chronicles."
(03/16/2005)


Now we can add Stave to Anele and the Mahdoubt as those with significant sight metaphors attached to them.

We just gotta figure out now what they mean ... :)
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dlbpharmd
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Spoiler
Don't forget the Ramen with the cataract....IIRC his name was Bhapa.
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Usivius
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Post by Usivius »

Whoa! Check out this SRD reply in the GI...!!!
Spoiler
To my way of thinking, one of the Great Truths About Life--comparable to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle in its elegance and profundity--is the Second Law of Thermodynamics: entropy. Everything everywhere always runs down. If you want to stall (because you can never stop) entropy in a specific place--say, home repair--you have to draw energy from "somewhere else" (e.g. your checkbook, which means that the energy really comes from your work, which comes from you, which comes from what you eat, which ultimately comes from the sun, which as we all know is steadily running down), which inevitably increases entropy in that "somewhere else."

Well, the same concept applies to "secondary creations," even in fantasy novels. Just look at LOTR. Middle Earth is "running down" in all kinds of ways. (They just don't happen to be the same ways that the Land is "running down.") And its deterioration can only be slowed by the insertion of vast amounts of energy drawn from virtually all of the main characters. Just to pick one example: sure, in the end good ol' Sam gets to go back to tending his garden; but he has suffered tremendously, and he now tends his garden in a world deprived of Elves--a world which may in fact have lost *all* magic.

Can it be otherwise in the Land? I think not: not without violating one of the Great Truths About Life--which would pretty much invalidate all of my reasons for telling the story.
I callit a spoiler because there is A LOT of hints, subtle and not so, about the direction of the story. Subconsciously, I guess I could see it, but to SEE it written down like this from the author --- wow.


... I'm scared ... hold me... :Help:

;)
~...with a floating smile and a light blue sponge...~
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Post by Fist and Faith »

Spoiler
Clearly, Covenant's Earth is the future of the Land's Earth. Covenant, et al, don't go to another reality, they go to the past, when magic was alive and well.

heh
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon

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Post by danlo »

Spoiler
absolutely fascinating! Thanks guys
fall far and well Pilots!
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Two great Q&As in todays GI:
Adrian Smith: Hello Mr. Donaldson. I have a couple of questions from my reading of The Illearth War. First of all, was Amok created to lead seekers to the Earthblood only once? In the event that someone else desired to drink, who would lead them there and help them pass Damelon's Gate?

The second question relates to the Vow of the Bloodguard. At the time of the first and second chronicles, did any of the Bloodguard know the location of the remaining four Wards of Kevin's power? Do any of the Harauchi know where the Wards are in the Last Chronicles?

Thank you for your time.

Since Amok was unmade by leading Elena and Covenant to the EarthBlood, I think we can safely assume that he was a one-time-only offer.

Naturally the Bloodguard learned a few things by being around the Lords; but Kevin did not burden the Bloodguard with his lore. Of course, the Bloodguard weren't interested. But Kevin's deeper reason--and a wise one, in my opinion--was that unearned knowledge is dangerous. Power without understanding (not to mention wisdom) is dangerous. Kevin intended the mastery of each Ward to enable the discovery of the next--IN SEQUENCE--until all Seven were finally known. And this entire scheme would be undermined if Kevin supplied any deliberate short-cuts (e.g. by telling the Bloodguard where the Wards were).

No, as matters stand the lore of the Old Lords is just plain irretrievable.

(10/16/2005)


Kasreyn: Hi Mr. Donaldson,

When I discovered your website, I was thrilled by the depth of information and discussion available. Thank you *so* much for making something like this website available to the people who love your work. And if I may also take a moment, I'd like to say that I've enjoyed your books for many years now, especially the Chronicles and the Gap Cycle. You've inspired me as a writer and shown me I have a long way to go still.

Enough hero worship! Two questions per month, eh?

My first question is something that's bugged me for years: at the end of The Illearth War, Covenant was willing to give up his ring in the name of the woman he cared for - he was willing to give it to Troy so Troy could save Elena from Kevin. Admittedly he was under a lot of pressure at the time. And yet in the Second Chronicles, Covenant is informed by the Elohim that the earth's peril lies in the fact that Linden doesn't have his ring, and he refuses to give it to her, though he is once again under great pressure. He refuses even though he loves her, like he loved Elena, and he is also motivated by guilt and desire to save the land, as he was in Illearth War. Was it his victory over Foul in Power That Preserves that gave him this sense of self-assuredness or arrogance that prevents him from surrenduring his ring to Linden?

Also, in The Power that Preserves, during Covenant's aborted first summons, Mhoram reflects at one point that the way in which Covenant forced Morin and Bannor to choose between fidelity to Kevin or fidelity to the new Lords at Rivenrock somehow helped cause the breaking of the Vow. This has always rung true to me, but I've never quite been able to put my finger on *why*. Can you explain what the consequences were of Covenant's actions on Rivenrock, and how they led to - or enabled - the breaking of the Vow?

1) You're comparing apples and oranges. Of course, Covenant in "The One Tree" is not who he was in "The Illearth War": the parameters of discourse, if you will, are entirely different. But in addition Linden's "condition" in TOT cannot be compared to Elena's desperate straits at the end of TIW. Linden has (mostly) recovered from the crises of TWL and is functioning fairly well: Elena is in imminent danger of absolute destruction (or absolute corruption, take your pick).

And, of course, Covenant has no particular reason to trust the Elohim--who may well be wrong in any case.

2) When Morin and Bannor aid Elena and Covenant on Rivenrock, they--in effect--enable Elena's insane use of the Power of Command. This introduces an inevitable self-doubt to a people who don't handle self-doubt well: you could say that it leaves the Bloodguard vulnerable to the consequences of the larger mistake of Korik, Sill, and Doar.

(10/16/2005)
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Post by Warmark »

Covenant has no particular reason to trust the Elohim--who may well be wrong in any case.
Interesting...
But if you're all about the destination, then take a fucking flight.
We're going nowhere slowly, but we're seeing all the sights.
And we're definitely going to hell, but we'll have all the best stories to tell.


Full of the heavens and time.
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Post by wayfriend »

Doh! That question about giving the ring to Linden could have been informative... instead we get fruit. :wink:
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Brittany M Jones: Dearest Mr.Donaldson,
First I would like to say that you are absolutely my favorite author of all time. My mother started reading the Thomas Covenant Series when she was pregnant with my siblings and I. I began the journey of Thomas Covenant when I was in the fourth grade and have been in love with your books ever since. I am attending the University of New Mexico now and I guess my question is when you were writing the first Thomas Covenant series did you ever think that it would become the phenomenon of generations? Mostly I just wanted to thank you; your work has brought light into my life when I couldn’t find any of my own.
Sincerely,
Brittany M Jones

No. And I still don't. "The phenomenon of generations." Forgive me: I don't intend to sound rude. But what does that even *mean*? I'm just a guy writing stories. And I'm blessed with a particularly devoted (not to mention intelligent and sensitive <grin>) group of readers. But I don't *feel* like I've created a "phenomenon."

On the other hand, the entirely unexpected success of the first six "Covenant" books does seem rather remarkable....

(11/01/2005)
Take a bow SRD fans!
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Post by Dragonlily »

I think "the phenomenon of generations" is a very nicely worded compliment. He would have done well to accept it graciously. I hope he becomes comfortable with praise someday.

I'm perfectly comfortable with him calling us "intelligent and sensitive." :wink:
"The universe is made of stories, not atoms." -- Roger Penrose
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The Laughing Man
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Post by The Laughing Man »

boy, he sure uses those "quotations" and *stuff* alot doesn't he? :roll:
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Post by Dragonlily »

He talks that way, too, Esmer. Lots of word emphasis and gestures.
"The universe is made of stories, not atoms." -- Roger Penrose
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The Laughing Man
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Post by The Laughing Man »

"Imagine" *that*! 8)
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variol son
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Post by variol son »

Wayfriend wrote:Doh! That question about giving the ring to Linden could have been informative... instead we get fruit. :wink:
Hmmm, I actually thought that he answerd the question rather well. His decision to offer Troy the ring always seemed a little off the cuff anyway.
You do not hear, and so you cannot be redeemed.

In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.

He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
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Post by Nerdanel »

As I read the thread I noticed there was last year talk of some "secret project" that SRD was doing for his publisher. I wonder what has come of it and why it appears that we still don't know what it was.
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