Haruchai "showing" emotion

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 1:35 am

I never really felt comfortable guessing whether they slept before reaching the One Tree. But I agree that Cail did not sleep when he was the only Haruchai left. I would hypothesize that the Haruchai can give up sleep for extended periods, even if the Earthpower isn't entirely removing the need for it, as it did for the Bloodguard.

I can't imagine they didn't need food though. Even the Bloodguard needed at least aliantha.

Post by **Damelon** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 2:30 am

I always assumed the Haruchai needed sleep in the Second Chronicles, though they didn't need a lot. Didn't Bannor state that he gave up sleep when he took up the vow?

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:42 am

Certainly not an iron-clad case, but I base my thought on these passages:

...Then came Mistweave, still stubborn in his resolve to serve the Chosen.

...As determined as ever to emulate the devotion of the Haruchai, Mistweave joined Cail standing watch over the company.

...The First, Pitchwife, and Linden were still asleep. Mistweave lay felled in his canvas cover as if during the night his desire to match Cail had suffered a defeat. Only Cail, the Demondim-spawn, and Findail were on their feet.

Though I don't think the Giants' physical capabilities can be easily overestimated, Mistweave could not match Cail. If Cail was sleeping an hour or two each day, I think Mistweave would have been able keep up. But he crashed because he had to match sleeplessness. In this, Cail seems to have been a match for Vain and Elohim. At least for a significant - from human standards - amount of time.

And yes, the Haruchai normally needed sleep. At least they did before the 1st Chronicles. The Earthpower removed the need for the Bloodguard.

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:46 am

I don't have a specific quote to prove that they did sleep, but doesn't Bannor talk in TPTP of dreaming while asleep, and not even remembering what a dream was when they began? So they must sleep at least a bit...

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:59 am

There is no doubt that the Haruchai sleep. Or, as I said, they certainly did before the 1st Chronicles. The Vow removed the need from the Bloodguard. Assuming they still needed any sleep by the time of the 2nd, I think Cail was able to forgo for a looooooooooooooong time. Longer than a Giant. Longer than anyone who is merely in incredibly good shape.

Post by **danlo** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:05 pm

I would hate, in a million days, 2 agree that Kaos might actually b right about something...

...but it appears, in this thread, that we only assumed that the Haruchai ate and slept in the 2nd Chrons and never came up w/concrete evidence. (though I could have sworn there was some reference 2 eating during the Courser episode, aside from voure). I assume they must eat something since the Bloodguard DID eat aliantha and none of that PLUS absence of earthpower were predominate in the 2nd Chrons.

I agree we're talking about and infintesimal amt. of time compared 2 the 2000 year+ of Bloodguard service, but come on...

(razz!..and besides we don't kno if the Haruchai didn't take cat-naps while every1 else was asleep...razz!

)

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:57 pm

danlo:

I would hate, in a million days, 2 agree that Kaos might actually b right about something... ...but it appears, in this thread, that we only assumed that the Haruchai ate and slept in the 2nd Chrons and never came up w/concrete evidence. (though I could have sworn there was some reference 2 eating during the Courser episode, aside from voure). I assume they must eat something since the Bloodguard DID eat aliantha and none of that PLUS absence of earthpower were predominate in the 2nd Chrons.

When did the Bloodguard eat aliantha? I may have missed that...

<- my Bloodguard impression.

Post by **danlo** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:13 pm

You kno I was joking b4, but now u've really got me upset! Do u even read ur own threads? U started a thread called "When did SRD decide to write the 2nd Chorincles?" In the middle of the 1st page of ur thread Fist quotes from Gilden-fire:

And, in part because of their Vow, they needed little food: as long as the hardy aliantha grew and ripened throughout the Land in all seasons, the Bloodguard required no other sustenance.

2 me, at least, everything SRD writes about the Land is part of the Chronicles, including Gilden-fire. I'd argue futher but I'd just get upset, and re-read the books w/o enjoying them. What do u think I just make this stuff up? Or r u purposely goading me in2 nitpicky debate? I enjoy this stuff I really don't try 2 argue it to death--I am not Sky or F&F or some1 else who enjoys these cumbersome debates.

I don't even like people trying 2 point out discrepancies in his writting and I really have NO desire whatsoever 2 speculate of the 3rd Chrons. If u want 2 turn me in2 a Chrons nitpicker I'll b an opponent u don't want 2 have. I have read these books, I do read other people's post and from time 2 time I do kno what I'm talking about!

Here's a

right back @ u!!!!!

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:34 am

danlo:

You kno I was joking b4, but now u've really got me upset! Do u even read ur own threads? U started a thread called "When did SRD decide to write the 2nd Chorincles?" In the middle of the 1st page of ur thread Fist quotes from Gilden-fire:

Sure I read it.

I just hadn't read it before I answered this one.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:03 am

danlo...

Post by **caamora** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:21 am

I agree about the Haruchai discipline about their emotions. SRD writes in a very descriptive way and, if you will notice in most of these passages, he writes about the hint of emotion. He writes the "as if" and "like that" to equate some feeling to the Haruchai actions. I also noticed that a lot of the "emotion" was going on in the Haruchai's eyes. After all, the eyes are the windows of the soul.

Post by **danlo** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:55 am

I apologize 4 being so nasty Kaos...this board is still acting weird on me and I had just come from the ASOIAF board where I was defending SRD 2 tooth and nail in the midst of some nasty nay-sayers--so it caught me in a bad mood...I bumped this thread 2 compliment the Haruchai discussion not 2 b a nasty old orge. So I'm truly sorry.

(I didn't mean 2 b nasty 2 Fist and Sky either...my wrath was doing stupid things 2 me last night...)

Post by **[Syl]** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:10 am

Danlo the Wildman appears to have a bit of the berserker in him.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:08 am

heh

But what did I miss now?! Oh forget it. If anybody was nasty to me, I guess ignorance is bliss.

lol

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:35 am

Gettin' back to the topic...

Like us, the Haruchai are physical beings. Maybe physical is only one component, but let's not debate that here. Whether or not there is a soul/atman/etc, there is the physical. And so, there is not much choice but to have physical reactions, manifestations of emotion, etc. But since they have their mind speech, the Haruchai have much less need to use physical expressions of emotion. They can communicate these things directly to each others' minds. And so, to large degree, body language and facial expressions either:
-never developed (if they always had their mind speech), or
-have atrophied (if they acquired their mind speech at some point in the past).
It is only their strongest feelings that can be seen physically.

Post by **Ryzel** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:38 am

I considered that too F&F, but this could not this easily have the opposite effect? (i.e. could not their body language have become more careless of emotion because they had no chance of it being misinterpreted?)

Post by **danlo** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:22 am

Sounds more Zen 2 me. With Haruchai being painfully aware of their every action. Discipline suffices, as it were...

Post by **Ryzel** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:33 am

Well, reading body language is a skill that is necessary to some, but not all kinds of communication.

If I speak to someone I would not take the time to compose my sentences like I am doing right now when I am writing this. This is because the only medium bearing information in this message is the writing.

I suggest that because they have telepathy the haruchai do not need to develop any strictures on how they express their emotions physically, because they do not communicate that way anyhow.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:32 pm

But if they always had their telepathy, then what reason would there have been for physical expressions to develop at all, so that they could then become careless with them?

In addition, I think the Haruchai attitude would prevent it. If, for example, a man of my world was romantically interested in a woman, he wouldn't walk up to her and say, "I think you are attractive, and I want to see if we're compatible enough to develop an intensely passionate relationship." He'd either get laughed at or his face slapped. He will more likely smile at her, look away, look back in a few minutes to see if she's watching, stand certain ways, etc. And he must pick up on these types of things from her.

Now can anybody picture the Haruchai playing coy? I think they'd more likely do the "Me man, you woman" thing. So that's another reason no body language needed to develop.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:37 am

Wow, can't believe I forgot this one entirely!! I just stumbled onto it as I was looking at something else.

"I intend to pay a little visit to Foul's Creche."

His words jolted the Cords, and their breath hissed through their teeth. The Manethrall's hands twitched on his weapon.

A flare of savage desire widened Bannor's eyes momentarily. But his flat dispassion returned at once.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Haruchai "showing" emotion