Gap Cycle/Ring Cycle

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Sorus
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Gap Cycle/Ring Cycle

Post by Sorus »

In a world where humankind is the weakest and least
effective form of life, the gods (Wotan; Fricka, his wife,
goddess of family and hearth; Donner, god of storm;
Froh, god of light; Loge, god of fire; and Freia, goddess
of eternal life) rule proudly - although they are neither
the oldest nor the most potent forces or beings in their
sphere. However, their power is precarious: It depends
on their ability to compel submission from two magical
and creative races, the giants (builders of large things)
and the dwarves (builders of small things), both of which
aspire to supplant the gods.


Okay, so we know that Morn and Angus are Siegmund and Sieglinde, and the Amnion are the dwarves.
When characters like Warden Dios, Min Donner,
Godsen Frik, and Hashi Lebwohl take the stage,
they come, as one might say, "trailing clouds of
glory" - the ether of their Wagnerian avatars.


I will admit right now that I am by no means a Wagner expert, and most of my 'research' is from the same place as the above quotes; the 'ancillary documentation' in the afterward of The Real Story.

So which Wagnerian avatars best represent the dramatis personae of the Gap Cycle?

Warden Dios is obviously Wotan; he traded his eye for insight and wisdom, and it's said that from his watchtower he could look out over the entire world and see at a glance everything that was happening.

Min Donner is likely Donner, god of storms, but I see her more as Brunnhilde:
Broken-hearted - and aware of his own doom -
Wotan commands his favorite Valkyrie, Brunnhilde, to
make sure Siegmunde and Sieglinde are killed by
Hunding, Sieglinde's rapist/husband.

As Wotan's favorite, she thinks of herself as his will
incarnate.


(His 'executioner'?)

Holt Fasner is probably Fafner, a giant who built Valhalla and could turn into a dragon.
Valhalla = The UMCP? The GCES? Both?

Hunding = Nick?

Hashi Lebwohl = Loge/Loki?

Godsen Frik = Fricka? (Implied by his name, but 'goddess of family and hearth'?)

Norna Fasner's name probably comes from the Norns; goddess of fate who were frequently consulted by the gods.

"According to some mythologists, their mission was to warn the gods of future evil, to bid them to make good use of the present, and to teach them wholesome lessons from the past."

Davies must be Sinfjotli, as he is the son of Siegmund and Sieglinde, though I don't know much about Sinfjotli, or if there are any parallels between him and Davies.


I think more research is required. Feel free to jump in with corrections or additional ideas.

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Post by Sorus »

So who are Froh and Freia?

Holt pretty much has to be a god, right?

Maybe I need to invest in a good book on Norse mythology.

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Is there no world for tomorrow, if we wait for today?


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Post by I'm Murrin »

Apart from Fasner, Dios, etc, I don't think there are many fixed parallels in the Gap story. Morn and Angus were intended to represent Siegmund and Sieglinde, and Davies Siegfried, but Angus plays the role of Brunnhilde once or twice (as does Min Donner). Angus also shows parts of Siegfried's role, his welding representing the armour given to Siegfried which is only vulnerable from behind (Angus' datacore was in his back), and his gaining the ability to edit datacores from the Amnion a shadow of Siegfried's gaining the Reingold because of his being raised by the dwarf.
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Post by Sorus »

Ah, your knowledge of Wagner is superior to mine. I'm mainly operating on a basic knowledge of Norse mythology here. :wink:

I posted this quote from the GI on another thread, kinda interesting just in terms of Gap name origins.

And throughout the life of the GAP books as I considered and wrote them, names played crucial roles as sources of inspiration and insight. Angus (bullheaded) Thermopyle (famous battle where a few warriors struggled against insurmountable odds). Morn (morning) Hyland (the Highlands of Scotland). Warden Dios (the caretaking, defending, imprisoning god). Godsen Frik (Hagen in my favorite recording of "The Twilight of the Gods" is sung by Gottlob Frik, and Godsen Frik is the "dark and hungry god" Holt Fasner's moral son). Lane Harbinger. Koina Hannish. Hashi Lebwohl. Sorus Chatelaine. Min Donner. Marc Vestabule. Vector Shaheed. The names positively *sing* to me, telling me who these people are, where they come from, what they care about.

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Post by lucimay »

The Nibelungenlied

www.ffaire.com/wagner/ring.html


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibelungenlied

perhaps this will help... :biggrin:
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have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies



i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
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and that's not what we brag about.
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Post by Sorus »

Very cool - will have to look that over in detail when I have more time. Thanks!

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Post by lucimay »

welcome :biggrin:
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies



i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio



a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
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Post by I'm Murrin »

Must be noted that Wagner's Ring cycle deviated from traditional versions in some plot points.
Wagner created the story of the Ring by fusing elements from many German and Scandinavian myths and folk tales. The Old Norse Eddas supplied much of the material for Das Rheingold, which also contains the same plot device as the tale Puss-in-Boots, while Die Walküre was largely based on the Volsunga saga. Siegfried contains elements from the Eddas, the Volsunga Saga, Thidreks saga, and even the Grimm brothers' fairy tales The Tale of a Boy Who Went Forth to Learn Fear and Sleeping Beauty. The final opera, Götterdämmerung, draws from the 12th century High German poem known as the Nibelungenlied, which appears to have been the original inspiration for the Ring, and for which the cycle was named. (For a detailed examination of Wagner's sources for the Ring, and his treatment of them, see among other works Deryck Cooke's tragically unfinished study of the Ring, I Saw the World End, and Ernest Newman's Wagner Nights. Also useful is a translation by Stewart Spencer (Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung: Companion, edited by Barry Millington) which, as well as containing essays including one on the source material, provides an English translation of the entire text which seeks to remain faithful to the early medieval Stabreim technique Wagner used.)

In weaving these disparate sources into a coherent tale, Wagner injected many contemporary concepts. One of the principal themes in the Ring is the struggle of love, which is also associated with Nature and freedom, against power, which is associated with civilization and law. In the very first scene of the Ring, the scorned dwarf Alberich sets the plot in motion by placing a curse on love, an act that allows him to acquire the power to rule the world means of forging a magical ring. In the last scene of that opera this ring of power is taken from him, and he curses it.
-From wikipedia.org
Interesting when you compare Wagner's theme of love against power and SRDs ideas of chaos and order.
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Post by variol son »

Well, as a representative of the link between the UMC and the UMCP, Godsen Frik could represent a certain type of "family". He also often runs crying to Fasner when Dios "breaks the rukles" in the same way Fricka points out to Wotan that Siegmund's killing of Sieglinde's husband Hunding is sinful and demands his death.
You do not hear, and so you cannot be redeemed.

In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.

He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
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Post by Fist and Faith »

Sorus, I just bumped an old thread in the TC forum that's along these lines. :D
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
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