V for Vendetta

[Loredoctor]

Hmmm, I may just see it now.

[sgt.null]

Fawkes has become a symbol, much like John Brown. if you examine Brown's actions it may change your perception of him as well. while both tried extreme measures, some would argue they were driven to those actions.

[Loredoctor]

He's a terrorist.

[CovenantJr]

Fawkes has become a symbol, much like John Brown. if you examine Brown's actions it may change your perception of him as well. while both tried extreme measures, some would argue they were driven to those actions.

Some would argue that case for any terrorist. In essence, Guy Fawkes wanted to kill the king because the king followed the "wrong" version of Christianity. That's terrorism.

[Worm of Despite]

For instance, why did the cast of LOTR make a big impression on me? Because it was largely composed of actors unfamiliar to me.

That's the best example of an unknown cast I'm aware of. They were all fantastic, and I'd never so much as heard of most of them. Yet I can't imagine anyone looking more like the characters they portrayed, or doing a better job.

Mr. Ian Holm is a better Bilbo than the one I imagined while reading the book. Same goes for McKellen's Gandfalf, Christopher Lee's Saruman. And don't even get me started on the choice of Brad Dourif as Wormtongue! Totally inspired! Okay, back to V:

Saw it very recently with my mom and thought it was a great superhero flick. Not sure if I enjoyed it as much as Batman Begins, but only the X-Men and SpiderMan films surpass that one for me. Anyway, this V movie makes me want to buy the graphic novel now. Good timing, too, since I'm about to finish Watchmen.

[Lorelei]

Saw this last night. I am totally unfamiliar with the graphic novel so I have nothing to compare it to. Overall good flick, only a couple of complaints. When will Natalie Portman ever do a decent British accent? I have seen her in many other films and really liked her....very disappointed. Could have done without the whole love subplot. Even as someone unfamiliar with the story, it just didn't fit. Other than that I thought it was a good movie, and will probably watch it again on DVD.

Hugo Weaving, Stephen Rea, Stephen Fry and John Hurt were all excellent!

[The Leper Fairy]

I saw it a couple weeks ago and really loved it... I hadn't read the graphic novel, and from what's been said, that seems like a good thing.

It wasn't exactly revolutionary, but I'm a fan of Orwellian type plots.

I promptly bought the novel and will start it after I finish The Catcher in the Rye

A and Null... thanks for your discussion about Fawkes... I knew very, very little about him before.

[Loredoctor]

Hugo Weaving, Stephen Rea, Stephen Fry and John Hurt were all excellent!

Stephen Fry? Wow.

[The Leper Fairy]

Stephen Fry is my friend's dad's name... he used to be an underwear model in NY... I'm assuming that's not the Stephen Fry you're talking about... at least I hope not.

[Loredoctor]

Possibly the wittiest comedian in the UK.

[sgt.null]

Claire : thank you. at least we have discussed Guy and his role in history. too many probally have no idea who he is.

[Fist and Faith]

Good timing, too, since I'm about to finish Watchmen.

OOOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!! Don't get me going on the Watchmen!!!! Did you read Rorschach's issue? #6 I think? I've quoted Rorschach's speech a couple times, and will gladly do it again:

Stood in firelight, sweltering. Blood stain on chest like map of violent new continent. Felt cleansed. Felt dark planet turn under my feet and knew what cats know that makes them scream like babies in night. Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and God was not there. The cold, suffocating dark goes on forever, and we are alone. Live our lives, lacking anything better to do. Devise reason later. Born from oblivion, bear children, hellbound as ourselves, go into oblivion. There is nothing else. Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us. Streets stank of fire. The void breathed hard on my heart, turning its illusions to ice, shattering them. Was reborn then, free to scrawl own design on this morally blank world. Was Rorschach.

Issue after issue of GENIUS!!! Laurie's revelation (which I won't get into, since I don't know if you read it yet) and subsequent discussion with mother and Dr. Manhattan's origin are also particular favorites. All the backup stories. Just extraordinary!!! It can only barely be called a comic book, so far beyond the norm does it go in both quality and form.

[Worm of Despite]

Issue after issue of GENIUS!!! Laurie's revelation (which I won't get into, since I don't know if you read it yet) and subsequent discussion with mother and Dr. Manhattan's origin are also particular favorites. All the backup stories. Just extraordinary!!! It can only barely be called a comic book, so far beyond the norm does it go in both quality and form.

Yeah, I'm two issues/chapters away from the end. Rorschach's chapter prolly was my favorite, but I dunno--hard to choose at this point. I'm kinda sad it's about to end, but I just bought V for Vendetta to make up for that.

But yeah, I found so many wow-inducing moments in Watchmen--times when I had to stop and immediately re-read what I had just read, because of its overwhelming greatness. Frank Miller is great, I admit, but Alan Moore's stuff sings like poetry. I especially love the constant juxtaposition of the pirate comic with parts of the actual narrative. Hmm, I better shutup, or I too might spoil something. Heh.

[Fist and Faith]

Yeah, the pirate thing is great! Who'd have expected such a thing in there, and me to be interested in what happens next!

I guess I'd rate Miller and Moore as equals. Leaning in Miller's direction, simply because he's done more. A couple of DD stints, creating many of what are now defining aspects of the character; such as Elektra, and her own Assassin mini-series; Batman Year 1 and Dark Knight Returns (although the 2nd DKR series was not nearly as good.); Ronin; 300...

But Moore did the same for Swamp Thing that Miller did for DD, and his run there is one of my favorite comic books of all time. Stunning stuff! Watchmen; V; and my favorite Green Lantern story of all, which was just a short story in a GL Corp annual, where Abin Sur learns things about the GL Corp's future.

[matrixman]

Well, don't get me started on Watchmen or I'm also liable to start blathering like an idiot. (Like that's ever stopped me before.)

Glad you're enjoying Watchmen, LF. Didn't realize you had never read it before. Hey, those of us here who have read the book could form our own little sub-clique, er, club: Kevin's Watchmen. With our own signature "Comedian" smilie face. Okay, dorky idea.

V For Vendetta - the movie - arrived so soon that I really had no time to build up any huge expectations about it. The case for the Watchmen movie will be different. It's been languishing in development hell for so long now that it could mean a) it is being treated with tender loving care by those who want to stay true to the scope of the story, or b) it's being slowly and painfully butchered out of all recognition by those who are clueless about what to do with the story. So it may end up being the greatest graphic novel adaptation ever...or it could become the "Battlefield Earth" of its day.

I know I like to say film adaptations should be judged on their own merits, but I'll admit it's a mantra meant more for myself since it's pretty easy to just point to all the missing bits in an adaptation and call it a day. I'm almost certain I would've enjoyed V For Vendetta the film much more if I didn't have the darned story and the book's own visuals floating around in my head.

CJ and TLF, I'm glad you both liked the movie! You too, Lorelei! I'm envious that you all saw it with fresh eyes. It would be very interesting to know your opinions of the graphic novel (those of you who are going to read it, that is).

[sgt.null]

i think Moore has stayed more consistantly good than Miller. Dark Knight returns was horrible.
try Moore's run on Swamp Thing.

[Lord Mhoram]

Alan Moore is indeed a genius. V and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen are great. I've been meaning to read Watchmen for a while now.

dennis,

Well, The Dark Knight Returns is almost universally hailed as one of the greatest graphic novels of all time, and certainly the best of the Batman ones. It and Watchmen really transformed the art form of the graphic novel altogther.

[Fist and Faith]

Alan Moore is indeed a genius. V and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen are great. I've been meaning to read Watchmen for a while now.

You haven't read Watchmen, and didn't mention his run on Swamp Thing, so I guess not that either, and you already know he's a genius. JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU READ WATCHMEN!!!!

Well, The Dark Knight Returns is almost universally hailed as one of the greatest graphic novels of all time, and certainly the best of the Batman ones. It and Watchmen really transformed the art form of the graphic novel altogther.

I'm gonna assume sarge meant the second DKR. Which, despite some cool moments (when Robin freed Flash was the best!!), was horrible. The first DKR is every bit as good as every bit of praise it has gotten.

[sgt.null]

Fist/LM: sorry, i did mean the second series. while it did have cool moments too much seemed to happen off-panel and it was hard to figure out what the hell was happening. and the bad guy came out of the blue.

[matrixman]

Found this article in a copy of The Globe & Mail from from March 17 discussing Alan Moore's displeasure with film adaptations of his works:

...Alan Moore has been very vocal about his unhappiness with the new adaptation of V For Vendetta, his 1988 graphic novel about a future fascist Britain. Last weekend, The New York Times reported on Moore's decision to not only remove his name from the movie's credits but - as a shot at DC Comics and its corporate parent Time Warner - have his name removed from every work controlled by his former publisher.

The cause of Moore's displeasure is not the movie itself. No, Moore was upset because producer Joel Silver claimed that Moore had given it his blessing. When DC Comics failed to get Silver to retract the remarks, which were based on a meeting with Moore when Silver optioned the material nearly two decades ago, Moore severed any relationship with the company. His reaction may seem out of proportion to the affront - aren't movie producers expected to be creative with the facts? Yet it's easy to see why Moore has run out of patience when the system has been so cruel to his vivid and imaginative creations.

The British writer, who began his career as a cartoonist for British rock magazines in the late seventies, has long had a wary relationship with the film industry. For one thing, he has not written or collaborated on any of the screenplays. As he once told the Guardian, "If someone's going to butcher my baby, I'd rather it wasn't me." Including V For Vendetta, four of Moore's works have been made into movies. Another, Watchmen, has failed to make the jump despite innumerable attempts. Filmmakers have been consistently stymied by both the complexityof Moore's storytelling and his quintessentially English preoccupations.

From Hell (2001) was based on Moore's exhaustively researched inquiry into the mystery of Jack the Ripper. The filmmakers opted to present the story as a murky whodunit, disregarding Moore's wider examination of how societal conditions in 19th-century England set the stage for the Ripper's crimes and future atrocities. In the case of the 2003 adaptation of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen - about the adventures of a crimefighting team of fictional heroes including Allan Quartermain and Captain Nemo - Moore's playful reimagining of the Victorian era's fantastic literature was lost amid a cacophony of explosions. (Adding insult to injury, Moore had to testify in a lawsuit by writer Larry Cohen and producer Martin Poll, who believed the finished movie bore a greater resemblance to their unproduced screenplay than Moore's original comic.)

The 2005 thriller Constantine was based on a character that Moore invented while writing Swamp Thing. It was Sting who inspired the image of demon-fighter John Constantine. He was played on screen by Keanu Reeves; in the words of Stan Lee, "nuff said." As for Watchmen, Moore's revered series about the murder of superheroes, the film project has been linked to Terry Gilliam, Darren Aronofsky and, most recently, Paul Greengrass. If it's any consolation to Moore, Silver no longer has the rights.

Ironically, of all the movies based on Moore's comics, V For Vendetta is the most faithful. Though a work that was originally intended to demonize Thatcher's Britain now includes references to America's war on terror, it remains Moore's dark vision at its core. There's even a new scene in which a police inspector is given information by a mysterious gentleman who, with his unkempt, greying hair and long beard, bears a distinct resemblance to the now-uncredited author. However, if this hirsute figure is not intended as an homage to Moore, then Mick Fleetwood should sue.

- article by Jason Anderson, special to the Globe & Mail

Ha ha, Mick Fleetwood indeed!