Buddhism in the Chronicles.

[jehannum_2000]

I was idly typing words from the Chronicles into Google, e.g. dukkha, and found that it means 'suffering' (and more) in Buddhism. This reminded me that the Raver's original names were also Buddhist concepts. How did words from this language come to be in the Land?

And the old man in the ochre robe: surely a sign of a Buddhist. So is SRD signifying that the Land's Creator is of this faith?

Pete.

[danlo]

Well 1st of all remember that SRD's dad worked w/lepers in India. Donaldson spent 13 years of his childhood exposed to Hindu and Buddist thought. SRD doesn't seem 2 b touting any faith and, aside from the Xtian evangelicals, the whole series a pretty much a-religious. Perhaps, like leprosy, he thought that these words were alien enuf to his audience to evoke fantastic and wild images...The Creator's robe was probably just coincidence. I highly doubt it signified anything. UNLESS the Land really is a strange, secret Buddist Hell?

[Skyweir]

or Buddhist paradise

[Guest]

I was idly typing words from the Chronicles into Google, e.g. dukkha, and found that it means 'suffering' (and more) in Buddhism. This reminded me that the Raver's original names were also Buddhist concepts. How did words from this language come to be in the Land?

And the old man in the ochre robe: surely a sign of a Buddhist. So is SRD signifying that the Land's Creator is of this faith?

Pete.

There are a few others sprinkled in there as well. Moksha is a term that means release from the changing world and the cycle of reincarnation -- such a peaceful name for such a nasty raver.

I don't necessarily think robes are mutually exclsuive to buddhism though... most religions wear robes in some capacity.

I guess the other reason I don't think it's buddhism is the cosmology as a whole feels decidedly non-eastern -- the Creator vs. Foul or TC vs. Foul struggle seems more of a westernized manichaean duality found more in Judeo-Christianity than in eastern religions (although it can be argued that Covenant's struggle with *himself* is buddhist in nature).

I see a few different religions and philosphies sprinkled it the Chronicles... I think that SRD used his creative license to make a really cool amalgam (buddhism/wagnerian/Norse etc.)

Just to play devil's advocate with myself (ewww, don't look, kids), the Lords themselves do have lots of Buddhist traits. The oath of peace, stewardship of the land, marrowmeld... all very wholistic buddhisty type stuff.

The cool thing about interpretation is that readers can see/interpret things that SRD may have never thought of, which makes the books a unique experience for each individual reader.

[ringthane]

I was idly typing words from the Chronicles into Google, e.g. dukkha, and found that it means 'suffering' (and more) in Buddhism. This reminded me that the Raver's original names were also Buddhist concepts. How did words from this language come to be in the Land?

And the old man in the ochre robe: surely a sign of a Buddhist. So is SRD signifying that the Land's Creator is of this faith?

Pete.

There are a few others sprinkled in there as well. Moksha is a term that means release from the changing world and the cycle of reincarnation -- such a peaceful name for such a nasty raver.

I don't necessarily think robes are mutually exclsuive to buddhism though... most religions wear robes in some capacity.

I guess the other reason I don't think it's buddhism is the cosmology as a whole feels decidedly non-eastern -- the Creator vs. Foul or TC vs. Foul struggle seems more of a westernized manichaean duality found more in Judeo-Christianity than in eastern religions (although it can be argued that Covenant's struggle with *himself* is buddhist in nature).

I see a few different religions and philosphies sprinkled it the Chronicles... I think that SRD used his creative license to make a really cool amalgam (buddhism/wagnerian/Norse etc.)

Just to play devil's advocate with myself (ewww, don't look, kids), the Lords themselves do have lots of Buddhist traits. The oath of peace, stewardship of the land, marrowmeld... all very wholistic buddhisty type stuff.

The cool thing about interpretation is that readers can see/interpret things that SRD may have never thought of, which makes the books a unique experience for each individual reader.

Weird, I wonder why my message said I posted as a guest?

[danlo]

what is this word? manichaean--I've never seen it b4...GUEST!

[ringthane]

I was idly typing words from the Chronicles into Google, e.g. dukkha, and found that it means 'suffering' (and more) in Buddhism. This reminded me that the Raver's original names were also Buddhist concepts. How did words from this language come to be in the Land?

And the old man in the ochre robe: surely a sign of a Buddhist. So is SRD signifying that the Land's Creator is of this faith?

Pete.

There are a few others sprinkled in there as well. Moksha is a term that means release from the changing world and the cycle of reincarnation -- such a peaceful name for such a nasty raver.

I don't necessarily think robes are mutually exclsuive to buddhism though... most religions wear robes in some capacity.

I guess the other reason I don't think it's buddhism is the cosmology as a whole feels decidedly non-eastern -- the Creator vs. Foul or TC vs. Foul struggle seems more of a westernized manichaean duality found more in Judeo-Christianity than in eastern religions (although it can be argued that Covenant's struggle with *himself* is buddhist in nature).

I see a few different religions and philosphies sprinkled it the Chronicles... I think that SRD used his creative license to make a really cool amalgam (buddhism/wagnerian/Norse etc.)

Just to play devil's advocate with myself (ewww, don't look, kids), the Lords themselves do have lots of Buddhist traits. The oath of peace, stewardship of the land, marrowmeld... all very wholistic buddhisty type stuff.

The cool thing about interpretation is that readers can see/interpret things that SRD may have never thought of, which makes the books a unique experience for each individual reader.

Just to followup on my own ramblings...

The other thing that struck me about the lords were how they had a humanist/deistic philosophy. From Covenant's discussions with Mhoram, we know that the Lords believed in a 'Creator' but viewed his role as a detached, disengaged deity. The lords almost came off as compassionate atheists, ie, "the big guy upstairs ain't gonna get it done so we better roll up our sleeves and be good stewards of the land." The lords' outlook *does* seem very buddhist in the sense that their beliefs center more on a philosophy than a ritualized form of heirarchial religion (and ultimately, buddhism is a philosphy, not a religion).

On the other side of the coin, I see lots of gnosticism, kabbalaism and sufism. The wards and lore are redolent with secret and forbidden knowledge, filled with simulacra and arcane script that defy comprehension. The one obvious analog from kabbalaism is The Tree Of Life/The One Tree, and there are lots of others I can't think of right now.

[ringthane]

what is this word? manichaean--I've never seen it b4...GUEST!

Manichaenism is a philosophy about the duality of life, playing up the angle of 'light' vs. 'dark' or good vs. evil. IIRC the philosophy was started by a Persian named Manes, circa 3rd century AD.

Most fantasy bores me to tears because it takes manichaenism and beats it to a bloody pulp. The good guys wear white hats and the bad guys wear black hats and twirl their moustaches and kick your dog.

Dualism is great for storytelling, however, and SRD played it perfectly -- there *was* an epic battle of good vs. evil, but Covenant gave the chronicles a human dose of moral relativism. Instead of being broad strokes of either black or white, there were lots of subtle shading and brushstrokes.

That's why George RR Martin is another fave of mine -- it's not manichaean, it's machiavellian.

[amanibhavam]

Well, the Rede definitely pictures the situation as a gnostic/dualist sect would do it: the A-Jeroth (= Rex Mundi in dualism) created this material world and it is a torture, an unclean thing for those who dwell in it, so the aim is to escape from the material world and find the way to God who is Good and never touched matter as it is.

[Tulizar]

I've read too many stories that rely on mythic and religious symbolism. Rely so heavily in fact that the story is overshadowed by the writer's outside influences.
TCTC is filled with such symbolism, yet is not convoluted. What's great about SRD is that he draws from many philosophies, myths and religions and incorporates them seamlessly into an original tale. Whether overt, such as the Norse/Wagnerian symbolism, the Elohim(of Enoch) and Covenant as Christ figure, or subtle--the Lords' Buddhist philosophy, SRD is able to use these influences to strengthen his story without compromising it.

[danlo]

I agree Tulizar. And ringthane thanks for clarefiying this:

That's why George RR Martin is another fave of mine -- it's not manichaean, it's machiavellian

. I was about to say, "Prehaps you meant machiavellian?" but was, and am now, glad I didn't... (Too bad you missed Martin tonight he was in rare form! The entire Con was rolling in the aisles! )

[Tulizar]

Isn't Manichaen such a cool word? Never heard of it until I read this topic. I'm inscribing it into my tiny brain as we speak. Hopefully I'll be able to spring it on someone soon before I forget how to spell it! You guys rock!

[dennisap]

Augustine tangled with the Manicheans.He was one of them until he found their answers to his questions unsatisfactory.

[Fist and Faith]

How the heck did you get the site to accept an avatar that big??????

[[Syl]]

lol... was thinking the same thing. Nice smile, tho.