Fantasy Cliche

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:05 am

My least favorite fantasy cliche is the antihero who, recently cured of a skin disease, rapes a beautiful young woman.

God, can't these writers come up with something original?! So overused.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:09 am

Quite. I want to see more card-sharps who moonlight as nannies. That'd also beg the more-interesting-than-usual question of what such a person would do with the legendary sword that is his or her birthright.

Post by **Loredoctor** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:11 am

Lord Mhoram wrote:My least favorite fantasy cliche is the antihero who, recently cured of a skin disease, rapes a beautiful young woman.

God, can't these writers come up with something original?! So overused.

[Pendantic]Leprosy is not a skin disease - that's a sign or symptom - it's a disease of the nerves[/Pedantic]

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:14 am

Post by **CovenantJr** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:15 am

CovenantJr wrote:Quite. I want to see more card-sharps who moonlight as nannies. That'd also beg the more-interesting-than-usual question of what such a person would do with the legendary sword that is his or her birthright.

This was aimed at Loremaster, not Mhoram. You know, so I don't look silly.

Post by **Loredoctor** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:15 am

Lord Mhoram wrote:

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:16 am

Oh I was laughing at both of your comments.

Post by **Loredoctor** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:21 am

Science Fiction cliches:

Organic technology
Hive minds
Starships run by a naval force
Psychic powers
God-like aliens
Machines that want to be human
Weapons that can blow up worlds
Ancient, but extinct, enlightened alien civilisations with technology that still functions after millions of years
Progenitor races

Post by **drew** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:52 am

CovenantJr wrote:That'd also beg the more-interesting-than-usual question of what such a person would do with the legendary sword that is his or her birthright.

Why-Oh-Why is there so many Legendary Swords?

I mean how much more phallic can you get?

Loremaster wrote:Science Fiction cliches:

Organic technology
Hive minds
Starships run by a naval force
Psychic powers
God-like aliens
Machines that want to be human
Weapons that can blow up worlds
Ancient, but extinct, enlightened alien civilisations with technology that still functions after millions of years
Progenitor races

I've only read the Hitchikers Guid and the Gap as far as SF goes; but I know in movies, I'm getting tired of the 'Machines wanting to be Human'--machines taking over humanity is used a lot too

Post by **Variol Farseer** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:14 am

drew wrote:Why-Oh-Why is there so many Legendary Swords?

I mean how much more phallic can you get?

You live in a place as violent as the average fantasy world, you'll want a sword in your hand for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with phallic symbolism.

And you'll pay for quality, too. Legendary swords generally seem to be forged by legendary swordsmiths, or made from meteoric iron, or what have you: excellent ways to improve the quality of a blade in a world that hasn't discovered vanadium or molybdenum.

Man, does Freud have a lot to answer for.

Post by **matrixman** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:40 am

Excellent points by Farseer.

I generally don't mind the "cliches" mentioned in this thread, as long as the writing keeps my interest. But then, I haven't read as much sf/fantasy as the rest of you, so maybe I haven't had time to get fed up.

Post by **Loredoctor** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:51 am

drew wrote:I've only read the Hitchikers Guid and the Gap as far as SF goes; but I know in movies, I'm getting tired of the 'Machines wanting to be Human'--machines taking over humanity is used a lot too

Another one is convergent evolution - the idea that despite the diversity of biologies (as evinced on Earth), somehow aliens look and act like us.

Post by **Nav** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:01 am

Loremaster wrote:Science Fiction cliches:

Starships run by a naval force

I've always attributed that to logic rather than cliche, what with the parallels between running a ship at sea and in space. The UMCP are an interesting alternative, though.

On topic, I'm gonna go with dragons and elves too.

Dragons don't always annoy me, just when they are the noble and benevolent allies of man. I don't mind them being big, ungodly powerful, nasty creatures (unless they are guarding a huge cache of treasure. I mean, what's the dragon's motivation?) but to make them like big loveable kittens is just way over-romanticised. I quite like the way dragons are handled in the world of warcraft though, some flights being downright evil and crafty and others indifferent to everyone else, but willing to cooperate to combat a great evil (they will, however, not hesitate to eat you, given the chance).

And elves. I do actually quite like the idea of the ancient, mystical, arrogant and haughty high elves, but please, please change the record. I suspect that a lot of fantasy writers actually want to be elves, which is why they crop up, more or less unaltered, in so many books.

Even when people try and make elves a bit different, they still come out fundamentally cliched. In the beginning, there were the high elves. Next, the author said "let there be different elves" and lo, there were wood elves. Wood elves lived in the woods but were otherwise the same as high elves. "But these elves are good" cried the public, and so some more clever authors created the dark elves. Dark elves were also ancient, mystical, arrogant and haughty, but this time they were stereotypically evil! And so on, ad nauseum.

Just for once I'd like to see elves that smoke dope and go hang gliding, or cheat at cards, or support under age drinking. Anything but more bloody haughty, mystical, ancient pansies.

Post by **variol son** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:51 am

Terry Pratchett's elves are my favourite - they seem to view humans and other creatures exactly as elves really would - with disdain so absolute that they view us as no more than playthings.

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:36 pm

Nav wrote: On topic, I'm gonna go with dragons and elves too.

Dragons don't always annoy me, just when they are the noble and benevolent allies of man. I don't mind them being big, ungodly powerful, nasty creatures (unless they are guarding a huge cache of treasure. I mean, what's the dragon's motivation?) but to make them like big loveable kittens is just way over-romanticised. I quite like the way dragons are handled in the world of warcraft though, some flights being downright evil and crafty and others indifferent to everyone else, but willing to cooperate to combat a great evil (they will, however, not hesitate to eat you, given the chance).

Harumph...Settle down Beauty. Ramoth and Mnemeth can settle their own honor...

Post by **dANdeLION** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:55 pm

Reanimated dead warriors coming back to help the good guys. Frankly, if you wrote your book with the odds too heavily favoring the bad guys, then just use a holy hand-grenade to thin their ranks.....dead guys have been overdone.

Post by **drew** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:29 pm

Variol Farseer wrote:You live in a place as violent as the average fantasy world, you'll want a sword in your hand for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with phallic symbolism.

And you'll pay for quality, too. Legendary swords generally seem to be forged by legendary swordsmiths, or made from meteoric iron, or what have you: excellent ways to improve the quality of a blade in a world that hasn't discovered vanadium or molybdenum.

I agree with you, but I'd much rather read a story about someone who was extrememly handy with a sword; rather then being born with the birthrite to use a mythical sword that does all the work for him.

Take Aragorn for example...yes he used Isildur's sword, but he kicked butt with it not because it was Isildur's sword, but because Aragorn was a first class swordsman.

Post by **onewyteduck** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:57 pm

Considering the Dragon......sometimes poorly used but IMO, never overused. I read a book while in 3rd grade, Shadow Castle. One of the main characters was a Dragon named Bramstookah who stole my heart. I have had a life-long love affair with the Wyrm ever since. And, that particular book started my interest in fantasy literature so without Bramstookah......(shrug). I collect dragons, they're all over my house. I even bought my soon to arrive, Granddaughter a rocking dragon. (No horse for MY princess.

) And, I recently bought Shadow Castle and as soon as she is old enough, G'ma is gonna' read it to her!

Post by **CovenantJr** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:15 pm

drew wrote:
Variol Farseer wrote:You live in a place as violent as the average fantasy world, you'll want a sword in your hand for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with phallic symbolism.

And you'll pay for quality, too. Legendary swords generally seem to be forged by legendary swordsmiths, or made from meteoric iron, or what have you: excellent ways to improve the quality of a blade in a world that hasn't discovered vanadium or molybdenum.
I agree with you, but I'd much rather read a story about someone who was extrememly handy with a sword; rather then being born with the birthrite to use a mythical sword that does all the work for him.

Precisely.

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:43 pm

Beorn's first chapter books was the My Father's Dragon series, then we moved on to HP.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Fantasy Cliche