What is the Land?

[theDespiser]

What seems to be the most obvious answer..to the original post..is that Donaldson was speaking from the perspective of people who actually lived in "The Land"...those that actually made the maps...The Land, their world, is pretty much the only thing on their maps, besides the sea, but they only have hints as to what is out there...so...The Land is all there really is for them...so...obviously...THE LAND...is the area (the only area that inhabitants of the Land) are aware of...


Seriously, I've said it before, and I'll say it again...you guys put way too much thought into certain things

[lucimay]

The whole point of the First Chronicles is that Covenant realises he doesn't need to know whether it's real or not, because the experience is real enough to him to be worth saving. It's another example of the recurring theme of the eye of the storm/paradox that runs throughout the first series. The Land couldn't be real, but it couldn't be unreal; Covenant had to find the balance between the extremes.

Elizabeth Kubler-Ross...final stage of death...acceptance.


I just finished reading the dissection of chpt 4 of Runes...(nice job, btw, Av, and excellent commentary from everyone in that one)...and it brought up old old questions for me, thus I sought out THIS thread to revisit and reask myself those old questions.

I have always wondered at the psychological impact of having one's consciousness snatched from one plane of existance to another-to experience a shift in perception so profound as to be from one physical plane to another. What the...?

I've been on the Watch many months now and have rarely engaged in any discussion on The Chronicles as Covenant has always been too much of an enigma for me...but having recently had to do literary analysis in class, I begin to, as I've said, need to go back and redefine this entire series again.

When I first read LFB (first hardback printing, lo these many years ago) I was immediately sucked into The Land unquestioningly. I used to become angry reading Covenant's struggle to accept...but reading this thread and the chpt 4 Runes dissection has got me thinking again about the psychological impact of the experience of going in and out of it.

Joan isn't taking it very well and there has to be a reason for that. Maybe some are more suseptible to GAP SICKNESS. See, the Gap Cycle has provided me a window into Donaldson's writing that, prior to reading it, I didn't have. How does "going across" into The Land affect people? What toll does it take on them psychologically?

Covenant had a helluva time dealing, but he did, albeit furiously; Linden dealt with it more closely to the way I MYSELF might, except that Donaldson apparently felt he had not underscored UNBELIEF enough and gave Linden a rough way to go too; Hile Troy, I think, comes closest to acceptance and it could be because he was finished with the plane of existance he was on. He was older than both Linden and Covenant and was more clearly defined by Donaldson in a shorter amount of time.

And still I can't get my head around what The Land IS. And like both Linden and Covenant, I really NEED to.


Oh the despiser's probably right...I probably AM overthinking it, but Donaldson DOES that to you, doesn't he.

[danlo]

I wrote this in a very old thread, started by aliantha, called: What part of One's Reality Goes to the Land? (thought I'd tack it on as FFT, or just for kicks):

Perhaps it is the mind and spirit co-existing in two dimensions at once but another body is formed, or created, around those entities in the Land--perhaps it is Earthpower itself that brings fourth a corporeal "body" out of mind and spirit--to then exist and be preceived in the Land (but remember he was "closed to them" ). TC is better than he was and then begins healing at a rapid pace after he enters the Land and thoughout most the 1st Chrons (not the TPTP, but Foul has the SofL: Winter)--so perhaps it is both his concious and subconcious desires to be healthy (in the physical sense) that are latched on to and then manifested into physical form in the Land by Earthpower--thus making him real. Then as we see in the 2nd Chrons he is a weakened state that almost corresponds to how Earthpower has been sapped of it's strenght by the Sunbane. Then aside from the Sunbane the lesser forms of Earthpower--and what remains may be magnified by the ring thus preventing Marid's venom from totally overcoming him--keeping him alive but depriving him of Earthsight and bringing numbness back to his body--Earthpower sustains Linden as well and grants her the Earthsight but it is probably her "newness" to the Land combined with proximity to the ring that does this--also remember this: Linden's health is, comparitively, hundreds of times better than TC's in our world during the time they are in the Land, so her "silver thread" or "life cord" that reaches from her body in our world to her new body in the Land does a much better job of sustaining her than does TC's...

[Zarathustra]

And still I can't get my head around what The Land IS. And like both Linden and Covenant, I really NEED to.

Isn't that cool, that after all these years and all this examination, that we can still be puzzled by it? I think that's exactly the way SRD wanted it. And perhaps this means we're not overthinking it.

Danlo, that was an interesting idea about earthpower creating a new body. It never occurred to me.

[Zarathustra]

This bit from the GI has been quoted before, but I've never really considered the context:

And remember, I'm dealing with a "reality" which is inextricably bound to the mind(s) of my protagonist(s). According the rules I've created, we simply *can't* have the Land without Covenant/Linden. It really would be cheating if I suddenly announced, "OK, I was just kidding about that whole maybe-it's-not-real, you-are-the-white-gold shtick. Let's pretend it never happened."

Okay, for the context. The question was:

Have you ever contemplated a "Land" novel where your original main characters, particularly Covenant and Linden, were truly dead apart from their historical legacy?

And SRD's answer was:

My immediate reaction to your question is, Huh? At the end of the "Runes" Prologue, Linden is shot through the heart. In what sense is she not "truly dead"?

So he's talking about a Land that is inextricably bound to the mind(s) of characters who are truly dead. Yeah, the Land is literally real. Sure.

But what does this mean? What is a world that is inextricably bound to the mind(s) of dead people? I want to say, "Heaven," but it could just as easily be Hell. Or something else entirely. It does seem that people only enter this world after intense physical trama--getting hit by a car, getting burnt to death in a fire, getting stabbed in the heart, or getting shot in the chest.

Aside from the reality questions, I don't think this physical trama--or death--theme has been sufficiently analysed by the Watch. Why is it necessary for going to the Land?

[lucimay]

well...i've been there in my head...i mean around the death or near death factor.

i'm about to decide i don't need to freakin figure it out at all. which is where i started. heh.

[iQuestor]

Malik said

But what does this mean? What is a world that is inextricably bound to the mind(s) of dead people? I want to say, "Heaven," but it could just as easily be Hell. Or something else entirely. It does seem that people only enter this world after intense physical trama--getting hit by a car, getting burnt to death in a fire, getting stabbed in the heart, or getting shot in the chest.

Well, you have a point there, however, as it is my nature I have to ask: What about Joan, Jeremiah, and Roger? None of them have been intensly traumatized in the same way as Covenant or Lindedn or Hile (I dont think) . We do not know if Roger has undergone any trauma, Jeremiah obviously has a mental issue with the events in the community of retribution (but that is 10 years in the past, although he still lives with it), and Joan has her problems, whatever is causing them (Foul being at the heart of at least her and Roger's problems). SHe has had them for years, though.

Jeremiah (Who Foul says he has) has not undergone a physical near death or death experience as Covenant or Linden (Or Hile) did when they entered the Land.

SO I guess my question is: Did Foul translate Jeremiah? Has he been hurt in the real world? If Joan and Roger are also there in the Land in some way or another, did Foul translate them as well? And why is there a difference between their method of arrival and Covenant, Linden's and Hile's?

I think there is something here to consider; would anyone like to comment?

I think Covenant, Linden and Hile were summoned. Roger, Joan and Jeremiah were brought.