If Thomas Covenant the Incredulous was retranslated?

[Edelaith]

I can't believe even the most incompetent translator could have made that mistake.
It is made obvious that none of the Unhomed were pirates, and their culture is antithetical to piracy. They were a noble and honorable people.
Saltheart Foamfollower could be literally translated to the French words of the same meaning, since this is a personal name. I'm sure the French words for salt, and heart, and foam, and follower, could be run together.

As some people have said: certain things defy comprehension.

[Myste]

Then his name should be Couerdesel Mersuivrier or something.

Instead:

I have no control over the translations of my books: publishers in other countries make their own decisions about which English-language books to buy; and they choose their own translators. Occasionally this is disastrous: just to give you one example, the first time "Lord Foul's Bane" was translated into French, "Saltheart Foamfollower" became "Briny the Pirate."

[Revenant]

I don't remember the french name given to Foamfollower: I'm looking forward to see what it is, and to try to see what the translator though he/she was doing.

I believe you'll find that it's "Briny the Pirate."

Yes, sorry, I meant I'd like to know what the french name is itself, not it's re-translation to english.

Haven't looked for the book yet ...

Then his name should be Couerdesel Mersuivrier or something.

I guess you meant "Coeur-de-sel Mer-suiveur" or "Coeurdesel Mersuiveur".
Sound a bit bizarre at first... but then when I first read LFB twentysome years ago, Saltheart Foamfollower was a bit of strange name too! It's Fantasy after all...

==

Now with the help of a handy french/english dictionary, I think I may have seen a root of this specific problem (even if I don't know yet the french name given to the giant yet):

"Foam", related to sea and ship, can be translated to "écume", the 'froth' we can see in front of a ship when it moves speedily. Ok, that's fine, no mistake here.
But there is another word in french, écumeur, and a verb, écumer, which mean in english pirate/buccaneer and to buccaneer/to plunder (the seas) respectively!
This is as in removing the wealth on the seas as one removes, skims off the foam from a liquid, eg beer, or something like that.

Here's a blog about this problem. "Saltheart Foamfollower" would then be just another way to say "Sea Compass", something which the french translator has missed (I surely did miss that! Now I know what his name means! And now that I know, it makes sense... I hate when this happens... And I like it too, we never cease to learn!)
It's from that meaning that a translation — in any language — can be made.

[Myste]

I don't remember the french name given to Foamfollower: I'm looking forward to see what it is, and to try to see what the translator though he/she was doing.

I believe you'll find that it's "Briny the Pirate."

Yes, sorry, I meant I'd like to know what the french name is itself, not it's re-translation to english.

Ah, sorry.

Then his name should be Couerdesel Mersuivrier or something.

I guess you meant "Coeur-de-sel Mer-suiveur" or "Coeurdesel Mersuiveur".
Sound a bit bizarre at first... but then when I first read LFB twentysome years ago, Saltheart Foamfollower was a bit of strange name too! It's Fantasy after all...

Yes, that's what I meant. Three years of high school French about 15 years ago doesn't do much for one's grammar.

[Revenant]

Update:

I've seen today a brand new french edition of the Chronicles. At first I thought it was just the old translation with a new jacket...

But upon browsing, and reading the back cover, I saw it was an entirely new translation (copyright 2006!). The back cover squarely states it is "an unabriged edition with a brand new translation..." It doesn't go on saying how the previous translation was despised, but you can see they made sure this wasn't the old butcher job.

I didn't read it (and won't), but at least I could see the "Something there is in beauty..." poem by Lena near the begining is there, which was cruelly missing in the previous translation.

However it seems the translator used the word "Fief" (related to feudalism) to translate "Land"... not too sure I like that.
As for Foamfollower, he's named "Suilécume", a contraction of "Suit l'écume" which means litterally "follows the foam". No pirate there!

As for the cover art, well it's not as bad as it could be (no Frazetta this time!).
Check here: www.amazon.fr/gp/product/2842282388/402-6509975-5095356

First book called: "La Malédiction du Rogue", or "The Curse of the Rogue"... ahem...

Second book will be released in september, with the title: "La Retraite Maudite", or "The Cursed Retreat" (referring v. probably to the Land's army retreat in front of Foul's army). A bit better.

No info on third book.

Can't judge on a few translated words. But at least they've given it a second effort...

[kevinswatch]

Ooo, new cover arts for the gallery. Fun.-jay

[danlo]

excellent!

[matrixman]

Thanks for the update, Revenant!

Let me guess, the word "Curse" will also be in the title of the third book. How about...The Cursed Fortress? (reference to Foul's Creche?)

I like the new cover art...except that the silhouetted figure looks suspiciously like a hobbit. Or maybe all people in fantasy worlds wear such cloaks. Heh, how's that for another fantasy cliche?

[Revenant]

Let me guess, the word "Curse" will also be in the title of the third book. How about...The Cursed Fortress? (reference to Foul's Creche?)

In the french titles, the words I re-translated as "curse" are from the same root, even though they differ in form. I translated "Maudite" by "Cursed"; I could have used "damned", which would have been a bit closer. The repetition of "curse" is my choice, although not a mistaken one.

I like the new cover art...except that the silhouetted figure looks suspiciously like a hobbit. Or maybe all people in fantasy worlds wear such cloaks. Heh, how's that for another fantasy cliche?

I think they didn't spend much time for designing the cover! A silhouette?
Since TC didn't have a stick that I remember of, I thought this could be a reference to a Lord (note to myself: I have to see how "Lord" is translated, "ur-Lord" also...).
Oh, by the way: that silhouette is repeated is smaller form at the end of each chapter, some kind of 'artistic' punctuation (I don't know how they call that in book design).

[Relayer]

"Saltheart Foamfollower" would then be just another way to say "Sea Compass", something which the french translator has missed (I surely did miss that! Now I know what his name means! And now that I know, it makes sense... I hate when this happens... And I like it too, we never cease to learn!)
It's from that meaning that a translation — in any language — can be made.

I've always seen two meanings in Foamfollower's name: One is essentially similar to this translation... He has a Heart that longs to the sea (as do all his people), the salty tang of the air. He follows the foaming waves to wherever their hearts lead them.

The 2nd is a bit more ironic: he chooses to befriend and follow around a man who is, in the Land's eyes, insane, and who "foams at the mouth" ...


Another question about the Giant's names that I haven't seen discussed anywhere: just about all of them have names that are "descriptive" ... Saltheart Foamfollower, Wavenhair Haleall, Gossamer Glowlymn, Cable Seadreamer, even the Ravers... all have names that say something about who they are... but not Grimmand Honninscrave. Was SRD just picking something that sounded good, or is there something else that I've missed?? Maybe it's Giantish for "Briny the Pirate"

R

[I'm Murrin]

Second book will be released in september, with the title: "La Retraite Maudite", or "The Cursed Retreat" (referring v. probably to the Land's army retreat in front of Foul's army). A bit better.

Could it be referring to "Doom's Retreat"?

[wayfriend]

all have names that say something about who they are... but not Grimmand Honninscrave. Was SRD just picking something that sounded good, or is there something else that I've missed??

Good question!

I don't think GH's name is meaningless sounds.

'Scrave', for instance, seems to be related to 'scriven', written or etched. Perhaps a scrave is a tool of some sort?

[Relayer]

I don't think GH's name is meaningless sounds.

'Scrave', for instance, seems to be related to 'scriven', written or etched. Perhaps a scrave is a tool of some sort?

That's an interesting thought... I wonder what that would imply about him? The things I notice are "Grim" (referring to personality, not burning rocks falling from the sky ) and "rave."

It's a very different style from all the other Giants who have specific words joined together to form their names... maybe he comes from a different social group or country among the Giants

[wayfriend]

What an excellent idea for a GI question...

[Relayer]

Funny, I had the same thought
I'll submit it, unless you already have...

R

[wayfriend]

'sall yours.

[Relayer]

already done...

[Cmdr_Floyd]

I cant believe that Lord Foul translates into french as 'Rogue'......

good grief.....

[Revenant]

I cant believe that Lord Foul translates into french as 'Rogue'...

Consulted the translation again... "Foul" has been rightly translated as "Turpide"; I've seen "Turpide le Rogue".
The "Rogue" part is probably a reference that he's a rogue Lord.
Well, that's how i interpret it.

[wayfriend]

Here you are, Relayer/Jeff.

Jeff: My question is about the Giants. Most of them have names that are based on "normal" English words that evoke something about their character... Saltheart Foamfollower, Wavenhair Haleall, Gossamer Glowlymn, Cable Seadreamer, even the Giant-Ravers... but not Grimmand Honninscrave. There are echoes in it (grim, rave, crave), but it's not straightforward like the other Giant names are. Was this intentional? If so, why; what does this say about him or his relationship w/ the other Giants? Or was this a case where, as you've talked about, you just liked the sound of the words?

Maybe it's Giantish for "Briny the Pirate" ? ;-)
Thanks and Be True,
jb

• Sadly, the truth is less interesting than your speculations. I started with something along the lines of "Grim-hand Honors-crave," but that seemed rather (if I may say so) heavy-handed, so I blurred the syllables. I didn't want to make it *too* obvious that he had a special fate. To be consistent, of course, I should have thrown in a few other similar names; but alas....
  
  (08/14/2006)

So his name was originally "Grimhand Honorscrave". Very interesting ... it alludes to an un-Giantish lack of humor, and also ambition.