stephen donaldson vs tolkien

[Hearthcoal]

This topic got started on the Old Discussion Board back in November 2001. With the Oscar's only a week a way and LOTR up for 13 awards, it seems fitting to post a link here to the archive ( stephen donaldson vs tolkien ) and to invite further discussion.

[aliantha]

Well, it's been said before, but I don't mind saying it again -- it would darned difficult to make a movie out of TCTC because so much of the action happens in people's heads. The Fellowship of the Ring made a terrific movie, and I do hope it wins the Oscar for Best Picture (if only to give the fantasy genre a little more legitimacy than it currently enjoys in certain quarters...). But I think about somebody trying to make a movie out of TCTC, and I just cringe. Even though I would dearly love to see Industrial Light & Magic get its hands on the scene inside the home of the One Tree.... (Look, I found Mr. Green!)

[Guest]

OOH, new board. Man, I'm so out of the loop.

Always thought that TCTC would not appeal to as wide an audience as Tolkien's work seems to. There is not always glory to be found in the Land, and the issues addressed aren't always easy to digest. I tend to see LOTR as a book of adventure, while TCTC is more inclined to provoke self-reflection, etc. Making a movie out of it would sort of be missing the point, I think. And who wants to pay $8 to see a depressed leper on a forced quest of self-discovery?
Wait, I do.

[amanibhavam]

making a movie out of TCTC would be like making a film out of Narn i Chín Húrin (those who read the Silmarillion know what I am talking about)
misery, treachery, suffering, murder, rape...

[Skyweir]

.. well that wouldnt be such a stretch .. It wouldnt be the first time there has been a movie made about 'misery, treachery, suffering and rape' ..

but it is a rarity that the hero character (albeit anti-hero) is also the rapist (and because of that an antagonist to some) .. I do agree with the consensus .. the concepts in TCTC may not be easily digested by the wider community. And it would invite so much moralising which is the anti-thesis to the philosophy of the series. Truly it would be a dilema .. and maybe not entirely insurmountable .. but difficult to imagine how it could be done and still dignify the authors intent.

ofcourse I am with anonymous .. that if it ever by some miracle found its way into film .. it would be on my definitely 'to do' list!!

Its not that I would not like to see a film made of the chrons .. but rather I would not like to see it made if it could not comply with the ethos of the story ..

.. and ofcourse we do have the old concerns raised by the marketing of movie memorabilia .. 'happy meals' 'action figures' and the like ..

.. the whole thought of the chrons being commercialised is really a distasteful notion ... to me.

anyway .. my 2 cents.

[Bannor]

I think, given enough money, The Chronicles could be made into a great trilogy movie. If there's not enough cash, it would look really cheap, and it'd be better not to even try.

[Hearthcoal]

Since this is really supposed to be a discussion about authors rather than movies, I have initated a movie thread.

The Chronicles FILMED!

[Bannor]

Sorry, thought everyone was talking about a possible movie.

[Hearthcoal]

Well, everyone is...just over on another thread. However, it's no biggie. (I probably got folks off on the movie trend with my mention of Oscar in the first post.)

[danlo]

I just put up an Oscar poll and y I'm pissed @ the Academy on Misc. Forum: What are U Watching in general.

[Hearthcoal]

Where's the poll, Danlo?

[Guest]

jus to go back where this started , id like to say comparing the chronicals to the lord of the rings is an unsurmountable task , it is very obvious to readers of both that donaldoson was inspired by tolkien ( the haruchi ?????) i enjoy both writers , theres much more magic on tlokiens work , much less mortal , and in donaldson we see ourselves in the leading role :)

i dunno what everybody else thinks but i have to put up with tolkien readers who scan the chronicals specifically for comparrisons , its like beign a mod and believing that buddy holly had nothing to do with the death of rock and roll!!!!

[arwenavery]

that anon was me

[Skyweir]

actually I agree .. there is a sense of benality in attempting a comparison between these 2 authors and even their individual works.

Every author who has lived since Tolkien who has read his work could not fail to have been influenced in some way by it. Tolkien and Lewis are both the fathers and leaders if you will, in the fantasy genre ..

SRD is an author who has followed there lead and yet is an author of a subtley different kind .. also of the fantasy genre but with a difference .. I see SRD's work as not moralistic but ethical by nature ..

I see in SRD's style a greater desire to break away from the black and white concepts which actually Tolkien at his time of writing and in his way was also committed to, even though less obvious. Tolkien through his fantasy work explores the modern world and all its costs .. as does SRD .. but with a slightly different world views ..

Tolkien like so many brilliant war poets who experienced the world wars had a strong desire to recapture the world as it was either before this time or create a better one in fantasy .. with the very real exposition of the ills that face humankind ..

Each of these brilliant authors bring to the table different life experience and it is this that distinguishes their works and makes a comparison ludicrous imo. They are both brilliant individually .. as are there respective works ..

Personally speaking Mordants Need .. though a much enjoyed book by me, is not of the class of any of Tolkien's works .. but I think TCTC is ..

< awaits flaming .. just my 2 cents

[Bannor]

No flaming of a Lord will be allowed as long as a bloodguard is around! I agree that the two authors are separate, and all authors are inspired or influenced by other authors. This is just as ordinary as musicians being influenced by other musicians but still writing their own music.

[Hearthcoal]

No flaming...with the possible exception of a true Servant of the Flame of Anor. But I don't think he's registered yet.

[amanibhavam]

I think for me tha main difference between JRRT and SRD can be summarized like this:

JRRT creates a world (spent his whole life with it!) and then creates stories to illustrate this world
SRD creates stories (or conflicts if you like) and then creates a world to illustrate the story

[Bannor]

Which brings us to the question of what comes first: the story or the world? Interesting comment, amanibhavam. I never thought of it like that. I am learning so much.

[danlo]

Tolkien pulls 1 in2 Middle Earth--It is not hard 4 me 2 believe this place once existed--Ursula K. LeGuin also is blessed w/this talent especially in The Earthsea series--in all these stories the reader almost becomes a silent character themself treking along on the adventure--understanding that what's going on is more than meets the eye. Donaldson goes 1 step further in TCTC: he pulls the reader actively in2 TC's mind w/the 1st 3 books, and then, mainly LA's in the 2nd Chrons--he also does this 2 some extent in Mordant's Need and the Gap series. The Gap series is a little different and a little more complex because sometimes we are switching between Morn Hyland's and Angus' mind and we can definately see the wheels turning in Warden Dio's. Herbert, in Dune, does this in a wild way--we can almost c thru Paul's mind's eye and feel the weird Bene Geserit genetic manipulations tracing their way back thru time and ancestors. Zindell in the Neverness series does this 1st w/Mallory's developement and later with Danlo actively fighting the Universe w/his mind--and we end up fighting it 2---brain cell aerobics!! Oh God I love it!!!!!!!!

[robo]

Tolkien foremost created Middle Earth so that he could have a place that his languages could live in. He didn't create the world first - he created the languages first but then realised that languages need a world to live in.