The Reason Berek and Covenant are one in the same...

[Nom vs. Vain]

High Lord Prothal said "your semblance to Berek is not gratutious."

I think many of use have always looked at "semblance" and just thought that it was an archaic term for "resemblance" when in fact they have slighty different meanings.

dictionary.com defines semblance as"

1. An "outward" or token appearance.
2. A representation; a copy
3. The barest trace; a modicum: not a semblance of truth to the story

At the end of Runes Linden sees someone who is unmistakably TC... There is no mention of a half hand.

My theory has spread to reason that Berek and TC are the same person... The man Linden sees is both Berek and TC. His hand will be whole and uncleaved, and he may or may not know his name was once TC. The story of Berek says that A King and Queen once ruled the Land, but the King became Corruption. Berek stood by the Queen to defeat the King. Joan, once TC's Wife whom I have no doubt he still Loves is now in the Land. Foul has control of her.

In the GI SRD said something along the lines of ...in the Last chronicles the histroy of the old lords shall return... or whatever

My Theory is this: Berek has returned to the land but before his has was ever injured. Foul will take Joan as his wife. Foul will loose his control over Joan and she and Berek and Linden will fight for the Land... The cloud of despair which is mentioned in the story of Berek is will be Kevins Dirt magnified... the forces of Good will start to loose hope when under the cloud and give up but berek will fight all the way up to Mount Thunder where Berek will loose his fingers again. Berek/TC will call down the fire lions, and that will complete the old story of Berek.

The reason his hand will be whole is that He is TC, who was made whole again after his tranformation into the White Gold. The Law of Death was never restored and Covenent became Human once again in Berek.

This time in the story however the land will be destroyed. Covenants Return to our world will secure that. Remember The White Gold is not bond by the laws... Including Time and Death...

Don't really care weather or not you agree with me or not... just thought you should know where the next three books will be going....

[High Lord Tolkien]

Let me be the first to tell you that........you're wrong.
I love your ideas though.

There's lots of prediction in the Runes forum.
Mine are the only one's that are correct though.



But don't forget Roger!
Who also looks like TC who also looks like Berek but is the only one with two full hands.

[dlbpharmd]

Yeah. I don't think so. Too cheesy for SRD.

[Xar]

True, besides remember that:

1) The King was never Foul, he was simply Raver-possessed;

2) Why on Earth would Foul marry at all, let alone a crazy woman like Joan, when he is not interested in ruling, but just in escaping?

3) As discussed in another thread, I still don't see any definite proof in the books which says that Covenant looked exactly like Berek. If anything, when he sees Berek he doesn't see any resemblance, the tapestry in his room at Revelstone revealed no resemblance, and the "semblance" Prothall speaks of is likely the half-hand, which is pretty uncommon at the time Covenant shows up;

4) Even if Joan somehow escaped Foul's grasp, she is not a fighter... I think SRD made it pretty clear that she's a victim of despair and that she, unlike Covenant, was conquered by it. I can't see Joan freeing herself from Foul and then standing against him;

5) The cheesiness factor would be astounding

[Warmark]

I agree, the semblance is the halfhand, i mean how many people do you know that have half a hand missing?

It stand outs, the halfhand is the reason they think of Berek.

If he had a whole hand i dont think anyone would have thought he was Berek, regardless of whether it is said Berek would return or not.

[Creator]

.....

5) The cheesiness factor would be astounding

I like CHEESE!!!!!



[BTW, I voted NO too!]

[Kil Tyme]

Voted no, cause Kevin is the great grandson of Berek, so I doubt TC would yet again sire another Lord line.

Now, it is true we don't know the name of Berek's son (do we?), for Berek's son had Loric and Loric had Kevin. It is interesting that the name "Kevin" is the only name that is used in RL, too. Now, if this theory were to hold true, then Berek's son could be Roger, who begat Loric, etc.

Anyway, I doubt it, but interesting theory.

[Fist and Faith]

At the end of Runes Linden sees someone who is unmistakably TC... There is no mention of a half hand.

Of course not. Linden doesn't think of him as the guy with the half-hand. There was no mention of anything that made her so sure it was TC. She simply recognized him. She knows him.

Now, it is true we don't know the name of Berek's son (do we?)

Damelon

[Kil Tyme]

Doh! Oh yes, Giant Friend Lord. Well, there ya go. Thanks Fist.

[Fist and Faith]

heh

[drew]

Voted no, cause Kevin is the great grandson of Berek, so I doubt TC would yet again sire another Lord line.

Yeah exactly. Plus Foul never makes an appearance to any of the old Lords but Kevin.
Berek (and Dameleon, and Loric) Never knew who Foul was. I can't see him time traveling to defeat him in the future. And I can't see Foul brining Berek to the future.

[Xar]

At the end of Runes Linden sees someone who is unmistakably TC... There is no mention of a half hand.

Of course not. Linden doesn't think of him as the guy with the half-hand. There was no mention of anything that made her so sure it was TC. She simply recognized him. She knows him.

Additionally, how easy could it be to notice what a man's right hand looks like, when he's riding amidst a group of other riders, chased by foes, and still some distance away?

[wayfriend]

Was there ever any description of how Berek lost his fingers?

[drew]

They were cleft off in a fight during the big battle, just before his flight towards Mount Thunder--I beleive it was by an axe; but it could have been a sword.

[Xar]

I seem to remember it saying it was an axe, somewhere in Lord Foul's Bane...

[iQuestor]

The Semblance was Covenant's half-hand, and not any other feature. I doubt the new lords even knew what Kevin actually looked like; the tapestry was old, but probably not 3000 years old; it was done by someone who had never seen Kevin. The ROD destroyed almost all of the people and all of their works, so I doubt any images survived, and if they did, 3000 years is a long tome for something hand made to survive.

Plus Foul never makes an appearance to any of the old Lords but Kevin.

Thats not true ... Kevin admitted him to the council of Lords, hence Lord Foul. I think the Old Lords met him, as well as the Bloodguard, since he was a member of the council for years. When Foul first spoke to Covenant, he said as much:

"Kevin was a fool-fey, anile and gutless .They are all fools. Look you, groveler. The mighty High Lord Kevin, son of Loric and great grandson of Berek, Lord Fatherer, whom I hate, stood where you now kneel, and he thought to destroy me. He discovered my designs, recognized some measure of my true stature- though the dotard had set me on his right side in the council for long years without sensing his peril- saw at last who I was. Then there was war between us."

Lineage: (from the glossary in LFB)

Berek -> Damelon -> Loric -> Kevin

how did Berek lose half his hand?
Why, playing with firecrackers, you dolts!

[drew]

_Well this is completly off topic, but I doubt of Loric and the Gang were alive when Kevin was High Lord.

Therefore when Kevin let him in on the council, his old man, grand-pappy, and great grandpappy were dead.

Foudl needed not to have met Berek to hate him..he was the Lord Fatherer, of course he hated him.

[iQuestor]

agreed, but Kevin was not the only lord, there was a whole council of them, known collectively as the Old Lords. All of them had met Foul. Bannor had met him, as well as Korik and the other original Haruchai bloodguard.

What I cannot get over is his name: Foul. Did he go by this when he met Kevin, or something else? You'da thought if his name was Foul someone would have a clue.

Kevin: Everyone, this is Foul. Foul, Everyone.
<sound of crickets chirping>
Lord Obvious: Uh, Kevin, can I talk to you a minute? Alone?


Edit: Afterthought: Berek probably had met Foul, either directly or indirectly; Foul has been in the Land since the creation, so I am sure Berek had knowledge of him.

[Kil Tyme]

Hmm possibly off topic, too, but with the Last Chronicles possibly going back in time again in one of the upcoming books (at least according to some SRD comment I read somewhere on the board here) to a time before the Old Lords, we might get to meet Berek; just guessing.

Which brings up an interesting question, at least to me: would you want to read where LA meets Kevin and/or Berek and they have some sort of adventure, or would you rather keep the Old Lords where they are, in the ledgendary and mysterious past? Just a far away glimpse of Berek as he calls the fire-lions down would satisfy me; it would still keep him mysterious enough, but allow for a "oh cool, look...It's Berek!" moment.

[iQuestor]

I think we will get to meet them, but Linden is not mentioned in the legends, therefore I do not think she can interact with them. I am wondering if TC does. There is some speculation that TC Might end up being Berek, but I do not think so. He's dead, for christs sake.