The Reason Berek and Covenant are one in the same...

[High Lord Tolkien]

I'm just hoping for one or two of the Old Lords to be ceasured to the future, like the urviles and then the Demondim.
It would be fantastic to see what they are in fact capable of doing (and not doing).
Even their personality and morality might be radically different from that of the New Lords (no Oath of Peace).
It would be shocking if they were badass mofo's.

"Linden is not mentioned in the legends" is not the best argument against her travelling to the Land's past.
It's pretty well established that Kevin can keep a secret (7 Wards) .

[iQuestor]

"Linden is not mentioned in the legends" is not the best argument against her travelling to the Land's past.
It's pretty well established that Kevin can keep a secret (7 Wards)

yes, but why keep her a secret? Because she is a time traveller? OK, maybe so.

but, I dont think SRD would do that. cant put my finger on it, I just dont think he thinks that way.

On the other hand, his GI comments make it clear something will happen, either they come forward or LA & CO go back to meet them... cannot wait to find out!

[dlbpharmd]

They were cleft off in a fight during the big battle, just before his flight towards Mount Thunder--I beleive it was by an axe; but it could have been a sword.

Right, Berek lost half of his right hand during his battle with the Raver-King.

[High Lord Tolkien]

"Linden is not mentioned in the legends" is not the best argument against her travelling to the Land's past.
It's pretty well established that Kevin can keep a secret (7 Wards)

yes, but why keep her a secret? Because she is a time traveller? OK, maybe so.

I think, for example, if Linden were to meet Kevin and they stood together each holding their own Staff of Law and she told him that if anyone knew of their meeting it would break the Arch of Time, Kevin might have kept his mouth shut.

[iQuestor]

I think, for example, if Linden were to meet Kevin and they stood together each holding their own Staff of Law and she told him that if anyone knew of their meeting it would break the Arch of Time, Kevin might have kept his mouth shut.

Agreed! Now, wouldn't that be something: Two staff of Law at the same time? I think that in itself might cause some damage itself. What a cool thought !

[Warmark]

Even their personality and morality might be radically different from that of the New Lords (no Oath of Peace).
It would be shocking if they were badass mofo's.

This would be ace, i'd love to see what an Old Lord could do.

[Buckarama]

What if he is? Does that mean the guy at the bar who put the spot light on him and said "Look! It's our good friend Berek!" Did he travel to the land? That would be some extreme chessie-ness

[PannionDude]

TC sees Berek's dead spirit at the end of TPTP. He's towering behind the Lords and joining in their urging for TC to smite Foul with the white gold ring power. Ergo TC != Berek, right?

[Relayer]

What if he is? Does that mean the guy at the bar who put the spot light on him and said "Look! It's our good friend Berek!" Did he travel to the land? That would be some extreme chessie-ness

AHA! The Mahdoubt is Susie Thurston!!

[Warmark]

TC sees Berek's dead spirit at the end of TPTP. He's towering behind the Lords and joining in their urging for TC to smite Foul with the white gold ring power. Ergo TC != Berek, right?

I think this is the definitive proof Berek and TC are not the same.

[Buckarama]

TC sees Berek's dead spirit at the end of TPTP. He's towering behind the Lords and joining in their urging for TC to smite Foul with the white gold ring power. Ergo TC != Berek, right?

I think this is the definitive proof Berek and TC are not the same.

Wasn't there an excerpt from the GI where TC acted like he was two places at once? Maybe in the Land he can be both alive and dead. (Okay I'm reaching, but hey! I have long arms.)

[Xar]

It's not a matter of being in two places at once or not... you'd think that TC would notice it if Berek looked exactly like him!

[Buckarama]

It's not a matter of being in two places at once or not... you'd think that TC would notice it if Berek looked exactly like him!

well he'd been through alot. Maybe he just didn't notice. If he'd never seen Berek before, how did he know it was him anyway?

[High Lord Tolkien]

Yeah, I don't think TC is Berek.
I'm placing my money on Roger being Berek.
There's way too much "Sins of the Father" type stuff in the Chronicles to dismiss this too lightly.

[Xar]

It's not a matter of being in two places at once or not... you'd think that TC would notice it if Berek looked exactly like him!

well he'd been through alot. Maybe he just didn't notice. If he'd never seen Berek before, how did he know it was him anyway?

Well, TPTP mentions in no uncertain terms that he recognizes the ghost as Berek's when he appears... I surely know that if I saw a ghost that looks exactly like me, I'd notice it... even just something along the line of "holy cow, those loonies were right about me being this freak's reincarnation after all!"

[wayfriend]

Hmm possibly off topic, too, but with the Last Chronicles possibly going back in time again in one of the upcoming books (at least according to some SRD comment I read somewhere on the board here) to a time before the Old Lords, we might get to meet Berek; just guessing.

I believe that Donaldson said that events during the early history of the Land would be important ... he didn't say that there'd be time travel one way or the other.

(Think about it: once could say the same thing about TIW - what Kevin did in the past (hiding the Wards, hanging out with Bloodguard, etc) was very important to the narrative. No time travel was needed to have that be so.)

[Buckarama]

It's not a matter of being in two places at once or not... you'd think that TC would notice it if Berek looked exactly like him!

well he'd been through alot. Maybe he just didn't notice. If he'd never seen Berek before, how did he know it was him anyway?

Well, TPTP mentions in no uncertain terms that he recognizes the ghost as Berek's when he appears... I surely know that if I saw a ghost that looks exactly like me, I'd notice it... even just something along the line of "holy cow, those loonies were right about me being this freak's reincarnation after all!"

Maybe he had a name tag? Hi! My name is "Berek" and I'm dead. But I look nothing like you!

[Relayer]

Maybe he did look like the Berek depicted on the tapestry.

Or maybe TC just noticed that the ghost had a half-hand

[Nom vs. Vain]

Okay... well I had thought at least one of you might see some logic in it but... here's one final piece of evidence that further ties TC to Berek... read the first few chapters of The Ill-Earth War... TC goes to a bar in a neighboring city and a woman, the performer in fact spotted him out.. and without fear said hey everyone its Berek! My Good friend Berek! He taught me everything I know! everyone give him a hand and maybe he'll come up here and sing for us! Now she couldn't see his hand, and SRD never retracts this... so what was the purpose? She saw him as Identical... and if other people can be brought into the land (hile troy) from our world, who is to say Berek had not already visited before TC, He knew of the white gold, perhaps the creator chose him to save the land the first time... and by the way there is an example of someone recognizing him directly as Berek!

[Nom vs. Vain]

ohh and I recant my statement that foul will marry joan... but according to royal lineage... the mother of a king is still queen until he takes a wife so... perhaps Roger is the Raver King we will be seeing....