nagging minor questions

[iQuestor]

Lets take the two most powerful examples and see what we come up with:

Berek's calling of the fire lions:

At the last of his strength and the extremity of his despair, he came to Mount Thunder. Climbing the rock-strewn slope, he threw himself down atop a great boulder and wept, saying "Alas for the Earth. We are overthrown, and have no friends to redeem us. Beauty shall pass utterly from the Land. "

But the rock on which he lay replied, "There is a friend for a heart with the wisdom to see it."

"The stones are not my friends," cried Berek. "See, my enemies ride the land, and no convulsion tears the earth from under their befouling feet. "

"That may be," said the rock. "They are alive as much as you and need the ground to stand upon. Yet there is a friend for you in the Earth, if you will pledge your soul to its healing. "

Then Berek stood upon the rock, and beheld his enemies colose to him. He took the pledge, sealing it with blood of his riven hand. The Earth replied with thunder; from the height of the mountains came great stone fire-lions, devouring everything in their path. The king and all his hosts were laid to waste, and Berek stood alone above the rampage on his boulder like a tall ship on the sea.

- Lord Foul's Bane

Also, The making of the Vow of the Bloodguard:

Therefore that night the army from the Westron Mountains gathered under the south wall of Revelstone. Al lthe Haruchai joined their minds together and out of their common strength forged the metal of the Vow- unalloyed and unanswerable, accesible ot no appeal or flaw, unambergrised by the promise of any corrupt end:a Vow like the infernal Oath upon the river of death which binds even the gods. This they wrought out of the extremity and innocence of their hearts, to matcht the handiwork of the Giants and the mastry of the Lords. As they spoke the hot words - Ha-Man rual tayba-sah carab ho-eeal- the ground seemed to grow hot and cognizant under their feet, as if the earthpower were drawing near the surface to hear them. And when they brought their Vow around full circle, sealing it so that there was no escape, the rocks on which they stood thundered, and the fire ran through them, sealing their bones to the promise they had made.

- Gilden-Fire

In each case, rock was the conduit to Earthpower. It is significant that the Earthpower was served in each case: Berek's pledge of healing, which resulted in the founding of the Old Lords, and the Vow, which also served Earthpower through their service to the Lords as well.

However, consider when Prothall and TC called the fire lions at the end of LFB; it was done with the Staff and White Gold. It was as if Earthpower lacked the ability (because it had been weakened of Fouls influence?) to directly aid those in need.

I do not think Eartpower acts alone. In each case I know of, there is either lore or an extremity of need by those of pure intention in order to use it.

Hurtloam and Aliantha (I believe) are pure products of the earth that either A) were made (perhaps by Earthpower itself) so that Earthpower was made available to the denizens of the Land or B) naturally occurring products that converted Earthpower into useable forms.

edit as an after thought:

Quote:
BTW, Andelain in winter would truly have a magic of it's own. Make it 4-2 for natural seasons


So noted!

I would love for you guys to go on speculating on whether Andelain has seasons, so here is a direct quote from LFB:

TC: Wow Andelain is awesome! But it was so cold back there, and now it is warm. I wonder what season it is here?

A Nearby Tree: Duh! it spring. its always spring here. Nope, hasn't snowed ever. Never lost a Leaf. Nice ring.

Linden: He's obviously right, you know.

There it is, in black and white. I am confident you will see now that Andelain never had seasons. end of discussion.

[Han-shan]

(Besides, imagine what the Dance bowl must look like under a midwinter moon with a few Wraiths drifting through!)

That's a gorgeous image! Wow.

"Wow" indeed! Nicely done, tony!

I also find it interesting how this implies that the Elohim, who are Earthpower incarnate, must also approve of this... yet they generally disapprove of TC. SRD often has events where "the Earthpower did something" - like forming the Vow - but doesn't that imply Elohim involvement? Aren't they essentially the conscious aspect of the Earthpower? Or can the Earthpower act independently of the Elohim?

If you understand the Hindu concepts of atman and Brahman, you understand the Elohim/Earthpower connection. Try to think of it this way... The physical bodies of the Elohim are pure Earthpower. I know, it's not physical, but bear with me. They are made of nothing but Earthpower. No other ingredients. They are not merely powered by Earthpower.

And all Earthpower is One. Cut a chunk out of it, and it is still connected. Paradox much? But we are not strangers to such things in either reality. Tat tvam asi. That thou art. The memory of all things is in all things. So the part that is separate can still access the whole. (Which means it can also access the other separate pieces.)

However, there is separateness. And this separateness allows each piece to be an individual. Indeed, the individuality is the very reason for the separateness.

The consciousness of the Earthpower is something different. (Regardless of what the Elohim will tell you.) It is something that has only been seen once - by Berek. It could no more ignore the extravagant purity and intensity of the Haruchai as they wrought their Vow than your Earth's magnetic field could ignore the sudden creation of a magnet the size of the Taj Mahal; but such is not a conscious reaction.

However, consider when Prothall and TC called the fire lions at the end of LFB; it was done with the Staff and White Gold. It was as if Earthpower lacked the ability (because it had been weakened of Fouls influence?) to directly aid those in need.

Again, not a conscious reaction.

[matrixman]

I'm leaning towards the "eternal spring" hypothesis. Okay, I won't sit on the fence. I cast my lot with the eternal spring camp. I think I had always assumed - in a foggy way - that Andelain had been kept in a static state. The excellent arguments from both sides have made me try to clarify my own thoughts. (Dammit, I felt comfortable in my foggy state...)

I suppose Andelain must technically adhere to the "natural order" of the seasons, since it's a bastion of Law and all that jazz. But can't the "Law" allow for some flexibility? Is it really a coincidence that every time we see Andelain, it's in full spring/summer splendor? Maybe, maybe not.

I like spacemonkey's idea that Andelain is in a state of continuous springtime growth in order to better resist the Sunbane. Perhaps it is in this way that Andelain boosts Caer-Caveral's power. If he derives his power from the wood and soil of Andelain, then it seems to make sense that his power can only reach peak strength when Andelain is in full bloom - when the lush trees and fertile soil are positively bursting with vital Earthpower for Caer-Caveral to wield on their behalf. I imagine it would be a more difficult task to draw Earthpower from the frozen ground of winter or from slumbering, leafless trees, dare I say even for a Forestal? (Taiga Tzu is gonna kill me...)

If Andelain does follow the "natural" progression of seasons, then does that mean Caer-Caveral's protective bubble weakens every winter because he is unable to draw sufficient power from the cold-locked Hills? If the bubble is full strength regardless of season, then that means either A) Earthpower never wanes in Andelain, even in the depths of winter, or B) Caer-Caveral's power rests in a separate source, independent of Andelain.

Explanation A might take care of everything. Andelain is, after all, called the heart of the Land. If the Earthpower truly is more readily accessible in the Land than anywhere else, then maybe it's really accessible in Andelain. Accessible and amplified. Maybe that's why Caer-Caveral is able to exert the full force of his protection 24/7 for millenia against something like the Sunbane, something so monstrously powerful that it should by all rights have destroyed him and Andelain long ago. But if there is no rest for Caer-Caveral, then neither is there rest for Andelain itself. The "peace" of winter is a luxury that neither Forestal nor forest can afford, when both are fighting for their very existence. They rely on each other, right? If it is from Andelain that Caer-Caveral draws his strength to ward off the Sunbane, then it is in Andelain's "best interest" to stay in full bloom to provide him with the full might of all available Earthpower. I ask again, why shouldn't Law allow some elbow room? Caer-Caveral is wielding the glaive of Law, yes, but why couldn't he also be bending the Law a bit to serve his needs and the needs of Andelain? It's Hile Troy within speaking out, making his stand. It's that passion to do anything for the Land, regardless of cost. "Natural order? Yeah, you keep your nice abstract concepts to yourself! I'm working my butt off keeping Andelain alive while I wait for that s.o.b. Covenant to show his face again!" (Yes, I'm actually on Troy's side here. See, I'm not all bad.)

Er...if B is true and Caer-Caveral gets his power from a source other than Andelain, then I guess it doesn't matter to him if Earthpower is accessible or not in that place. He protects Andelain, but he is not a part of it. But that violates the basic premise of a Forestal, that he (it) is the physical agent of the will of wood. Right? His power is an expression of the spirit of the trees he serves. Is Caer-Caveral a special case because he was "grown" from a human being? Does that specialness enable him to do things that previous Forestals perhaps weren't able to? I'm really going out on a limb with that.

So I'll stick with the easier explanation that Caer-Caveral gets his power from Andelain, Andelain boosts his power by being in full bloom all the time, thus you get Eternal Sunshine of the Forestal Mind, or some such thing...

Well, that's my brain-fart for the day.

Remember, I'm counting on you all to tear this navel-lint-gazing exercise to shreds. Wait, lemme get the popcorn...

[CovenantJr]

If the seasons are natural - and they are - I don't see why it would be any more difficult for Caer Caveral to access Earthpower in Andelain during winter. It's not he like he has to physically drag it through the frozen soil. It's power, it just comes out. Nothing is more natural than the changing of the seasons, and this natural cycle should itself radiate Earthpower.

Personally, I imagine a place that is perpetually in a spring state would have a kind of sickening, stretched feel to it, like Bilbo Baggins at the beginning of LOTR.

[iQuestor]

I'm leaning towards the "eternal spring" hypothesis. Okay, I won't sit on the fence. I cast my lot with the eternal spring camp. I think I had always assumed - in a foggy way - that Andelain had been kept in a static state. The excellent arguments from both sides have made me try to clarify my own thoughts. (Dammit, I felt comfortable in my foggy state...)

Yeah!!

[Trapper]

I cast my vote in the "Eternal Spring" camp.

Oops I seem to have left a "hanging chad". D'Oh!!!

Andelain was IMHO the quintessential depiction of beauty. Put there by SRD in order to taunt Covenants lack of perfection in the same way as the Ranyhyn taunted his vitality. Or Lena his youth.

I don't personally think that Andelain would have experienced seasons.

"All beautiful. All the time."

I may have infringed a cable-news copyright with that quote.

[Relayer]

Thanks for the many interesting thoughts regarding Elohim/Earthpower. Han-shan, I like your analogy to the Hindu concepts... and being an Elohim, you would have first-hand knowledge of this

And thanks to iquestor for digging out the quotes... The Vow I can see as an energy force responding to another force/lore. The Haruchai essentially were declaring "we will serve you forever, with no thought of death or failure" -- and didn't realize how the Earthpower would commit them to the letter of that vow. But notice that the text describes that "the ground seemed to grow hot and cognizant under their feet, as if the earthpower were drawing near the surface to hear them." There's an implication of something more than just a reaction... but this might just be poetic license. Either way, that's a powerful scene.

I still find it hard to reconcile how the Earthpower could literally speak. It makes more sense to me that an Elohim became aware due to the intensity of the situation and spoke through the rock. But, it's been a while since I've created a new universe and may have forgotten some of the finer things I could do with it's life-force energy.

[matrixman]

Personally, I imagine a place that is perpetually in a spring state would have a kind of sickening, stretched feel to it, like Bilbo Baggins at the beginning of LOTR.

Good analogy. Now I could be just splitting hairs, but I think the difference with Bilbo is that he is preserved by a fundamentally malevolent power in the One Ring. It keeps Bilbo young but at the same time slowly corrupts him or, um, eats away at his soul? Whereas Andelain - if it is being kept in a perpetual state - is preserved by a fundamentally benelovent force in the Earthpower. I think it could maintain Andelain in an everlasting spring without ill effects.

Of course, I could be completely wrong...but I reserve the right to be a blathering idiot!

[A Gunslinger]

Personally, I imagine a place that is perpetually in a spring state would have a kind of sickening, stretched feel to it, like Bilbo Baggins at the beginning of LOTR.

Good analogy. Now I could be just splitting hairs, but I think the difference with Bilbo is that he is preserved by a fundamentally malevolent power in the One Ring. It keeps Bilbo young but at the same time slowly corrupts him or, um, eats away at his soul? Whereas Andelain - if it is being kept in a perpetual state - is preserved by a fundamentally benelovent force in the Earthpower. I think it could maintain Andelain in an everlasting spring without ill effects.

Of course, I could be completely wrong...but I reserve the right to be a blathering idiot!

I agree wholeheartedly...that is why is was so terrible to see corruption destroy it with the sunbane!

[jwaneeta]

Gack! For some reason I wasn't getting topic notifications and I missed all these recent replies -- atman and Brahman and Earthpower, oh my, and Matrixman casting his lot with Eternal Spring, and Iquestor quoting from The Very Special Edition of LFB in which Linden makes a surprise appearance, and yet another vote for Eternal Spring from Trapper439... and what was I doing? Working, ew. Drag.

Caer-Caveral is wielding the glaive of Law, yes, but why couldn't he also be bending the Law a bit to serve his needs and the needs of Andelain? It's Hile Troy within speaking out, making his stand. It's that passion to do anything for the Land, regardless of cost. "Natural order? Yeah, you keep your nice abstract concepts to yourself! I'm working my butt off keeping Andelain alive while I wait for that s.o.b. Covenant to show his face again!" (Yes, I'm actually on Troy's side here. See, I'm not all bad.)

*swoons with stunned delight* Quite apart from your eloquence, that alone is almost enough to sway me to the Eternal Spring side. Wotta post!

TC: Wow Andelain is awesome! But it was so cold back there, and now it is warm. I wonder what season it is here?

A Nearby Tree: Duh! it spring. its always spring here. Nope, hasn't snowed ever. Never lost a Leaf. Nice ring.

Linden: He's obviously right, you know.

You know, a gnome offered me a sinister bargain not long ago, as I trotted across the tennis court under a fell and lowering moon: the details were hazy, but I ended up acquiring an urn containing parchments written o'er with glyphs of curious origin, which he told me was an exclusive interview with the last of the Forestals. I'm trying to puzzle it out in my off hours.

Unfettered One (not that One, another One): Wow, this is amazing. A huge thrill. Thanks for taking the time, seriously.

Caer-Caveral: Well met, Unfettered Person.

Unfettered One: I have so many questions... I've got to stick to my notes or we'll be here until the Sun of Rain. This is really exciting!

Caer-Caveral: No problem.

Unfettered One: I notice you're not singing.

Caer-Caveral: I speak as the man I once was. If I were to answer in my own tongue we really would be here until the Sun of Rain. And that's no fun, believe me.

Unfettered One: So, okay, how are things in Andelain?

Caer-Caveral: We're maintaining an even strain... *indecipherable*it...*indecipherable* there are ...

*indecipherable*

Caer-Caveral: And I was just saying to Mhoram the other day -

Unfettered One: Mhoram who?

Caer-Caveral: The Mhoram. The original. I was saying -

Unfettered One: High Lord Mhoram, of song and story? You talk to the actual Lord Mhoram?

Caer-Caveral: Well, as you know, the Dead walk in Andelain. It'd be pretty rude not to talk to them.

*indecipherable*

Argh! I just know those indecipherable bits containt the straight poop about Andelain's seasons! Doggone all dirty enchanted scrolls. I'm going to obtain, from dubious sources, a brush made from the hairs of a Golden Vole. That'll get the sucker clean.

I still find it hard to reconcile how the Earthpower could literally speak. It makes more sense to me that an Elohim became aware due to the intensity of the situation and spoke through the rock.

But Earthpower doesn't have to speak with a human voice, it doesn't need vocal chords - it only has to communicate itself in a way that can be perceived. In mysticism such rare words are called locutions, and it's a mind-to-mind thing, alledgedly much more vivid than mere speech. If Earthpower wanted to talk, and Berek was sufficiently sensitive, I don't see why they couldn't have quite a conversation.

I'm inclined to think that Earthpower is sentient and quite able to choose, speak, and exercize self determination if it so desires and nothing is blocking it. It doesn't stop the Elohim from being sentient branches of the same tree.

I've lost count of the Eternal Spring votes. Ah, what sweet indecision!

[CovenantJr]

Personally, I imagine a place that is perpetually in a spring state would have a kind of sickening, stretched feel to it, like Bilbo Baggins at the beginning of LOTR.

Good analogy. Now I could be just splitting hairs, but I think the difference with Bilbo is that he is preserved by a fundamentally malevolent power in the One Ring. It keeps Bilbo young but at the same time slowly corrupts him or, um, eats away at his soul? Whereas Andelain - if it is being kept in a perpetual state - is preserved by a fundamentally benelovent force in the Earthpower. I think it could maintain Andelain in an everlasting spring without ill effects.

Of course, I could be completely wrong...but I reserve the right to be a blathering idiot!

Yes, Bilbo was being corrupted by the ring, but the feeling he refers to in Fellowship (something like "butter spread over too much bread") seems to me to be simply the result of being prolonged beyond his natural span. One lifetime stretched to cover a longer period. I feel the same about eternal spring: one endless season would be all the vigour and vitality of a three month period stretched so thin you can almost see holes forming.

As an aside, jwaneeta's reference to the original Mhoram just reminded me of the whole na-Mhoram thing. That was such a hideous defacement of Mhoram's name; I'd forgotten how much it stunned and disgusted me. The horror...

[iQuestor]

At the last of his strength and the extremity of his despair, he came to Mount Thunder. Climbing the rock-strewn slope, he threw himself down atop a great boulder and wept, saying "Alas for the Earth. We are overthrown, and have no friends to redeem us. Beauty shall pass utterly from the Land. "

But the rock on which he lay replied, "There is a friend for a heart with the wisdom to see it."

"The stones are not my friends," cried Berek. "See, my enemies ride the land, and no convulsion tears the earth from under their befouling feet. "

"That may be," said the rock. "They are alive as much as you and need the ground to stand upon. Yet there is a friend for you in the Earth, if you will pledge your soul to its healing. "

The above is from the legend of Berek Halfhand, As told by Atarian. As with many legends, in the telling, there is embellishement. I do not think the Earthpower actually vocalized to Berek; I think the extremity of his need and the pureness of his spirit enabled Earthpower to act.

[jwaneeta]

Another nagging question: So what's the deal with Andelain's personality, for want of a better word? Does it have one? Was it ever part of the One Forest? It's never established that it has any sort of awareness, yet it it's certainly able to join forces with a Forestal when faced with extinction.

And another nagging question: Why does Covenant keep fixating on his "right" to the ring in WGW? It's all he has left, it's his alone, me, me, me, mine mine mine - none of these are terribly compelling reasons in themselves to keep it if Linden's better qualified to use it, it seems to me. Does he ever give a better reason, or is he just proven correct by events in spite of himself, as in TPTP?

Yet another nagging question: Aren't there any bears in the Land?

[wayfriend]

One vote for Andelanian seasons.

She was a storm upon the mountain, a barrage of determination and fire which no eyes but hers could have witnessed. From every league and hill and gully and plain of the Land, every slope of Andelain and cliff of the peaks, every southern escarpment and northern rise, she drew ruin into herself and restored it to wholeness, then sent it back like silent rain,
analystic and invisible.

Her spirit became the medicament that cured. She was the Sun-Sage, the Healer, Linden Avery the Chosen, altering the Sunbane with her own life.

Now, this doesn't prove anything, but I'd like to believe that Andelain was significant in the healing of the Sunbane: that Linden was able to draw on Andelain's natural order to inspire her healing, able to model the healed Land on the example Andelain provided. "She felt in her bones the rhythm of rise and fall, the strict and vital alternation of seasons, summer and winter." Linden absorbed the Sunbane by becoming, in a spiritual way, one with the Land, absorbing the harm of the Sunbane, restoring the founding principals which lied buried under yuck. And Andelain is the heart of the Land; Andelain was a major source of that feeling of what was strict and vital.

If this is so, then Andelain would have natural seasons. The whole thing would not have worked if Andelain was "special" and "magical" rather than the epitome of nature itself.

- - - - - - -

As far as the relationship between Elohim and Earthpower ... ah, this is something that has fascinated me, and I've delved into these dank and dark recesses more than mortals should ...

Of this I am sure. There is the Earth, and there is Earthpower. Earthpower is there to be weilded, a gift from the Earth, from the Creator. The Elohim are the Earth's children. They partake of it's essence. But they are not the sum and total; Earthpower is there to be used, whether the Elohim care or not. The Lords, the hirebrands and gravelers of the Land weild the Earthpower, regardless of the faerie folk. The Elohim know everything that transpires in the Earth, not because they are the Earth, but because they are the Earth's children, intimite with it.

It was the Earth that spoke to Berek, at the Creator's will. The Creator, despite his words, does interfere from time to time, when he dares. He guided Berek to the One Tree to create the Staff of Law. The rocks of Mount Thunder are merely his burning bush. His "help" started somewhere, because, after all, he had to lead Berek from where he was to the One Tree. At some moment he had to say, you want some Earthpower, fight the Despiser, let's go. This was that moment.

[iQuestor]

yes, but show me one passage that shows Andelain in any other season but spring....


I do not think there are any references that depict Andelain in fall, or winter -- summer perhaps, because of its proximty to the growth and splendor; but every visit, Andelain seems to be in growth and renewal ...


I see not evidence of any other season but spring.

[Fist and Faith]

I still find it hard to reconcile how the Earthpower could literally speak.

Pish and tosh. I take the lessons I can learn from TCTC EXTREMELY seriously. However, it's a work of fantasy. Certainly, the Earthpower can literally speak. Having this happen one time, under particular circumstances (some of which we may not understand, since the Earthpower is not necessarily motivated by the same things we are), does not contradict anything else, so I'm perfectly willing to believe it.

The above is from the legend of Berek Halfhand, As told by Atarian. As with many legends, in the telling, there is embellishement. I do not think the Earthpower actually vocalized to Berek; I think the extremity of his need and the pureness of his spirit enabled Earthpower to act.

I believe the Earthpower spoke to Berek because Mhoram believed it. I don't think Mhoram was often mistaken, or that he believed without good reason. I wouldn't be surprised if the story was confirmed when samadhi touched him. After all, he learned a great deal at that moment. Anyway:

"Consider it in this way. The study of Kevin's knowledge is the only choice we can accept. Surely you will understand that we cannot expect the Earth to speak to us, as it did to Berek Halfhand. Such things do not happen twice. No matter how great our courage, or how imposing our need, the Land will not be saved that way again."

[spacemonkey]

I have to agree with Iquestor, where is there any reference to any other season besides spring??

[jwaneeta]

"She felt in her bones the rhythm of rise and fall, the strict and vital alternation of seasons, summer and winter."

But maybe she restored normal seasons even unto Andelain?

I have to say, as much as I like the visual notion of seasons in Andelain, there's one more reason I incline (against my will, papa! against my will! ) to the Eternal Spring theory, and that's the repeated emphasis on the boundary line that sets Andelain apart from the rest of the Land. That interdict gets a lot of ink - it's described each time Covenant and party approach, "as precise as a line drawn in the earth."

On one side of that line, tormented creepy change. On the other side, that which changes not, perhaps? It seems .. poetic and fitting, somehow, that Andelain would be the exact opposite of all that tumult - still, inviolate and apart, locked in changeless perfection.

I guess I'll have to wait until Taiga Tzu comes back to ask about the bears. She started out as cougar, you know.

[CovenantJr]

You Eternal Spring lot are so stubborn.

[Relayer]

At the last of his strength and the extremity of his despair, he came to Mount Thunder. Climbing the rock-strewn slope, he threw himself down atop a great boulder and wept, saying "Alas for the Earth. We are overthrown, and have no friends to redeem us. Beauty shall pass utterly from the Land. "

But the rock on which he lay replied, "There is a friend for a heart with the wisdom to see it."

"The stones are not my friends," cried Berek. "See, my enemies ride the land, and no convulsion tears the earth from under their befouling feet. "

"That may be," said the rock. "They are alive as much as you and need the ground to stand upon. Yet there is a friend for you in the Earth, if you will pledge your soul to its healing. "

The above is from the legend of Berek Halfhand, As told by Atarian. As with many legends, in the telling, there is embellishement. I do not think the Earthpower actually vocalized to Berek; I think the extremity of his need and the pureness of his spirit enabled Earthpower to act.

That may be. (gee, I sound like the rock ) I'm sure Atiaran learned the story from the same sources as Mhoram, as she was a Lore student. And you're right, stories are commonly embellished. Your point is that it was an event like that of the Vow - the Earthpower responded to Berek's extreme passion, which makes sense and is a good possibility. Yet the people of the Land believe it truly happened as described, which leads me to think it may truly have happened as described.

I still find it hard to reconcile how the Earthpower could literally speak.

Pish and tosh. I take the lessons I can learn from TCTC EXTREMELY seriously. However, it's a work of fantasy. Certainly, the Earthpower can literally speak. Having this happen one time, under particular circumstances (some of which we may not understand, since the Earthpower is not necessarily motivated by the same things we are), does not contradict anything else, so I'm perfectly willing to believe it.
<snip>
I believe the Earthpower spoke to Berek because Mhoram believed it. I don't think Mhoram was often mistaken, or that he believed without good reason.

Pish and tosh? I take it you don't agree with me?
Seriously, I agree with everything you just said... especially that it's a fantasy, and whatever the author wants to happen, can... but it sure is fun to have these debates anyway . I don't question that the Earthpower spoke to Berek. Just that Elohim and Earthpower are analgous, and so when the Earthpower chooses to act it seems to me this implies possible Elohim involvment. As Wayfriend said, the rocks of Mt. Thunder might be the burning bush - for the Creator, as he said, or possibly for the Elohim.