Berek Halfhand = Thomas Covenant

[Nathan Brazil]

The whole nature of white gold is confusing, particularly from the standpoint of the wielders. Yes, wielders, not wielder.

If you think about it, anyone who came from the Earth could wield the White Gold (at least to date) effectively.

Hile Troy wielded it (albeit rather briefly)

Covenant of course

Linden Avery

As far as Land born, LF could wield it as well.

Ironically, Covenant is the only one of those referenced above who had a problem using white gold. Until The Second Trilogy, he needed a trigger. No one else has had that problem. Moreover, I would argue that the venom in Covenant became his internal trigger, and he may never have been effective at wielding it.

It is hard to accept this Covenant is white gold when those above have picked up the ring and used it, albeit with his blessing. Ironically, HT and LA were better at using it than Covenant. (As I recall, Troy was able to usher blasts at the mountain as soon as Covenant gave him the ring!)

It would not have surprised me if Mhoram or Elena could have wielded it too.

Only thing that might make sense is that Covenant, having never really accepted the Land until the end, could not make effective use of White Gold independent of an internal/external trigger.

Very odd. I wonded if SRD really thought through the whole methodology.

[Lord Mhoram]

Hile Troy didnt REALLY wield it...or he didnt do anything rather.
HLE and HLM couldnt have and wouldnt have wielded the ring, because wielders dont choose to wield it, they are chosen. Much like the One Ring, it almost seems like the WG chooses YOU. When you think about it, something important happened to everyone who wields the gold. Excluding HT, of course. He wasnt "chosen". Therefore, fate plays a role in both of the trilogies. All of these thoughts are merely theories of course.... [/i]

[Skyweir]

I recall a similar discussion on the old board ..

There is a lot of white gold in our world .. a great many people wear white gold jewelry and in particular rings .. So more relevant to TC's choosing .. than the alloy: white gold .. was the bearer Thomas Covenant.

Why TC and no other summoned to the Land .. to save or damn the earth?? Fundamentally perhaps .. that no other could.

TC was chosen by the Creator from our world .. not because he bore a white gold ring .. but because of who he was and what his life experience had made him.

In ch.21 Leper's End TPTP the Creator tells him ..

You were a man already acquainted with the habit of despair - with the Law which both saves and damns. Your knowledge of your illness made you wise ...

...Further, you were in your own way a creator.

TC was the wild magic .. was the white gold .. This power went beyond what ever power could be harnassed by the actual metal alloy ..

The others who wielded the ring .. were able to exercise its power .. that is true .. but I wonder if they would also be able to harnass and channel it? Maybe??

I think anyone that got hold of the ring could wield it .. to some degree .. but TC could harnass wild magic without possession of the ring .. ie: his defeat of LF in Kiril Threndor .. at the end of WGW.

Ch. 21 To say farewell WGW

'Foul didnt understand. Maybe he was too far gone. Or maybe he just refused to believe it. But he tried to ignore the paradox. The paradox of white gold. And the paradox of himself. He wanted the white gold - the ring. But I'm the white gold too. He couldnt change that by killing me. When he hit me with my own fire, he did the one thing I couldn't do for myself. He burned the venom away. After that I was free.'

Its a curious thing to be sure ..

.

[Lord Mhoram]

Ah, Mr Dondaldson...why do you torture us so...
I truly believe the Ring chooses YOU...do you agree, Sky?

[The Creator]

Skyweir, EXACTLY!

Note that Hile Troy did spout wild magic on Gallows Howe, but I think SRD put him in the Land to show us that TC was chosen for who he is. HT was one of those people who automatically take responsibility to show that he appreciates the acceptance he got in their community (the Land). Then he put himself in a position of power with the best of intentions, and, when he failed, it was a despair-laden problem for him. He felt he had let everyone down.

TC, on the other hand, was not that kind of person. He did not seek out authority, he did not want respect or trust (or deserve it he said), he actively avoided the stuff!

However, when squeezed, he was stubborn. He wouldn't crack even under intense pressure to do so. PROVEN by his resistance to the despair of the logic of the law of leprosy. It's a disease YOU CANNOT BEAT. Despair is an emotion YOU CANNOT DESTROY. You accept it. You know it's always there and when it comes back you stubbornly beat it down.

No final "victory".

TC was the only one who could defeat the Despiser in BOTH Chronicles. He figured out the "one good answer to death." And imposed his own answer on it.

*sniff* I'm so proud! *sniff*

[Skyweir]

whoa Creator dude!!!

.. that was good!! ... immensely powerful stuff!!

I think there was a discernable crescendo in the wording of that post!!

MY favourite bit

However, when squeezed, he was stubborn. He wouldn't crack even under intense pressure to do so. PROVEN by his resistance to the despair of the logic of the law of leprosy. It's a disease YOU CANNOT BEAT. Despair is an emotion YOU CANNOT DESTROY. You accept it. You know it's always there and when it comes back you stubbornly beat it down.

No final "victory".

TC was the only one who could defeat the Despiser in BOTH Chronicles. He figured out the "one good answer to death." And imposed his own answer on it.

I need recovery time after that read!! *phew* lol *wipes brow*

[CovenantJr]

Indeed, very incisive post there, Creator!

On the theme of HT and the wild magic... I see after consulting my copy of the Illearth War thatHT did indeed use wild magic, but all he really did was make it glow, and i suspect this was through sheer desperate emotion, as you will see. He wouldn't have been able to actually employ it in any useful way. Observe:

Like a titan, he swung his fist at the heavens; power flamed from the white gold as if it were answering his passion. In a livid voice, he cried, 'Elena! Elena!'

Then:

In the stillness, Caerroil Wildwood lifted his gnarled sceptre. 'No,' he trilled. 'I cannot permit this. It is a breaking of Law. And you forget the price that is owed to me. Perhaps when you have gained an incondign mastery over the wild magic, you will use it to recant the price.'

Both quotes are from The Illearth War; Chapter 26, Gallows Howe; page 557 in my edition.

[Nathan Brazil]

I am delighted to find myself in the company of such wonderful fans of SRD.

Hmm, CovenantJr, was there more to the use of the ring by HT than that? Somehow, I recalled more (maybe I am just a big HT fan)


In any event, I don't think I would characterize HT's use of the ring as making it "light up". Causing the ring to flame is different from a flicker. Certainly more than Covenant could get out of it in the first series absent a trigger. I like the emotion focus of HT's use though. I want to think about the interaction between HT's passion/need and the concept of choice/choosing. Interesting stuff there.

Keep the posts coming.

[High Lord Prothall]

On triggering the white gold, as I recall, Covenant's ring was already triggered from all the power in the earthroot cavern, and remained active when HT took the ring. So, HT did not have to activate the ring "cold". I believe that HT instinctively knew how to use the ring once it was active (unlike TC at first), though he didn't get a chance to try.

LF didn't need a trigger in WGW, but he is not mortal, and possibly he is his own trigger (i.e. being an etherial being, his own power is the trigger)

When Linden activates the ring in WGW is the first time the ring is activated by a mortal without a trigger. This may imply that TC was just an inept wielder in the first series, or it could indicate that the laws of the ring have changed over time due to the various transformations of the Law over 2000 years in the land.

[Lord Mhoram]

I thought the ring got activated only when he touched the orcrest in Earthroot...I dont think it could have remained active...he went back to Earth...it cant stay in the same status through that whole time at least...I dont think so.

[CovenantJr]

I like the emotion focus of HT's use though.

I'm a fan of the emotional use of wild magic. When TC first used wild magic to dissipate the storm in LFB, it seemed to have been provoked by his rage and frustration at the inhospital conditions, and the relentless trudge of Atiaran's march; the final straw was when he slid headfirst down a muddy hill:

The rain hampered him as if he were trying to run on the bottom of a breaking wave.
Then a vicious skid sent him sledding down the hill with his face full of mud. When he looked up again through the rain and dirt, Atiaran had vanished into the dark storm as if she were in terror of him, dreaded his touch.
Fighting his way to his feet, Covenant roared at the rampant clouds, 'Hellfire! You can't do this to me!'
Without warning, just as his fury peaked, a huge white flash exploded beside him.

And in the second chronicles, a lot of his use of wild magic was caused by emotion. True, it was made easier by Marid's venom, but extremes of emotion seem conducive to the use of wild magic, even without venom.

[Davin]

The visit to Kemper's Pitch would seem to bear that out CovenantJr. His description of magical creation indicated that all magic was created/practiced with flaws... perfection was not possible. By removing the ring from Covenant, it would be freed from his emotional state, and thereby become a tool of perfection. It makes me wonder though, how the ring would avoid not being tainted by it's new user had he obtained it. Anyone that bears the ring would probably lend their emotional state to any use they made of it. In the hands of Foul it would be the ultimate destructive weapon. In the hands of Linden it (hopefully) would be a tool of great healing, but even her background may taint anything she did with it. That would undoubtedly be a very interesting thing to explore in any third series.

Davin

[Guest]

Yes, Linden had more than her share of inner demons! How many/much will they taint the new Staff of Law? And how much will TC be tainted by the Venom?

[Revan]

i done think so. because in the illearth war, it states that berek was born in a town, whic i will not attemped to spell.

[Bring back the Ranyhyn!]

As far as I recall, 10 years elapse in our world betwen the First and Second Chronicles, and 3000 years elapse in the Land. So that's 300 years in the Land per year in our world. That is also reflected by how the amount of time that passes in the Land between LFB and IEW, and between IEW and TPTP, is on the scale of decades, which corresponds to the scale of weeks in our world. This means that the theory posed by someone earlier that the onset of TC's leprosy would match the time of Berek in the Land makes sense.

Also, I think we can be totally sure that the 3rd chronicles will explain the link between our world and the Land. Before I knew that there would be a 3rd chronicles, I actually regarded the only flaw in the Chronicles as being that there was no explanation for Hile Troy and Linden Avery-- it just seemed too arbritrary. I'm hoping that, and confident that, SRD will finally explain the link between the two worlds.