The "We Love Angus" Thread

[lucimay]

Excellent post, ringwielder.

yes, succinct. i agree. nicely put ringwielder.


i do like the Arc of Angus...one of my favorite character's of Donaldson's, second only to Saltheart Foamfollower who is one of my favorite fantasy characters ever.

(plus the cast of thousands in Erickson!)


i forgot to say welcome ringweilder, cause i been busy but better late than never! welcome especially as you're a Gap reader!!

[CovenantJr]

As a sidenote, i'd add that an Angus roaming the universe in possession of a state of the art, a**kicking ship and welded to the hilt with zone implants and hidden lasers etc is whole lot less dangerous than the Angus we met at the start of the series. Psychologically, he need never fear being made a victim ever again, and in that way he knows he is permanently free of the crib.

Very good point. I did have concerns about the monstrous Angus being turned loose by Donaldson.

[drew]

I agree that Angus redeemed himself, and did a fine job.
But he didn't do enough.

Maybe with Holt's ship he could contact the family members of the crew that he sold to the Amnion nd tell them that it's okay, he won't do it again.

Or he could could tell all the innocent miners that he blasted away that he's sorry and a changed man.

I have no problems with a criminal or a guilty person redeeming himself; But I don't feel that ALL his crimes should be forgiven-he wasn't just a petty theif; he was a cold blooded murderer--and though he changed his ways, and became a hero (and quite a hero let me add) that doesn't change the fact that he is a carreer criminal.

Look at his SECOND last act, just before he killed Holt, he killed ll of Holts crew; their only crimes were being welded just like he was.

[lucimay]

oh driver...

we'll just have to agree to disagree on this i think.

i guess you think that a better finish to his character arc would have been for him to die? would that have served the story better do you think?
i don't.

[ringwielder]

Excellent post, ringwielder.

yes, succinct. i agree. nicely put ringwielder.


i do like the Arc of Angus...one of my favorite character's of Donaldson's, second only to Saltheart Foamfollower who is one of my favorite fantasy characters ever.

(plus the cast of thousands in Erickson!)


i forgot to say welcome ringweilder, cause i been busy but better late than never! welcome especially as you're a Gap reader!!

Thanks Lucimay

I too liked Angus's character, mostly because he was so despicable. Its easy to cheer on an archetypal hero, and Angus is anything but that; yet you still found yourself wanting him to succeed. IMO, a masterclass of writing by SRD.

I agree that Angus redeemed himself, and did a fine job.
But he didn't do enough.

Maybe with Holt's ship he could contact the family members of the crew that he sold to the Amnion nd tell them that it's okay, he won't do it again.

Or he could could tell all the innocent miners that he blasted away that he's sorry and a changed man.

I have no problems with a criminal or a guilty person redeeming himself; But I don't feel that ALL his crimes should be forgiven-he wasn't just a petty theif; he was a cold blooded murderer--and though he changed his ways, and became a hero (and quite a hero let me add) that doesn't change the fact that he is a carreer criminal.

Look at his SECOND last act, just before he killed Holt, he killed ll of Holts crew; their only crimes were being welded just like he was.

I agree that there were many heinous crimes of Angus' that went unpunished. But without him, hundreds of thousands of lives - perhaps millions - would have been lost when the Amnion threatened Earth.

From the moment Morn set him free of his zone implants, he could have abandoned humanity to run and hide, saving himself - instead, he repeatedly put his own life at risk (as well as his freedom) in the fight against both the Amnion and the Dragon.

[drew]

No Luci..I don't think he should have died, but he should not have been rewarded for his past crimes.

I don' think he was willing to fight the Amnion for the protection of the people of Earth..Angus was always looking out for ONE person; although in times, he came to look out for TWO--Himself and Morn.

Honestly, I like Angus..not just his part in the story, but I like what he did, how he changed..I just don't like (in fact it's the only thing in the GAP series I don't like) the fact that he got off scott free. I mean Even Mikka had to answer for her crimes, she was pardoned, but still had to answer for them...Angus was NEVER EVER tried for any crime he actually commited.

[lucimay]

No Luci..I don't think he should have died, but he should not have been rewarded for his past crimes.
...he got off scott free. I mean Even Mikka had to answer for her crimes, she was pardoned, but still had to answer for them...Angus was NEVER EVER tried for any crime he actually commited.

so who answers for the crimes committed against Angus?

i don't think he got off "scott free" at all. i think he paid in advance.

most (and i say most because there are SOME exceptions) most "monsters" are made, not born. and that's the case with Angus.
in a society that makes monsters it is, one way or another, the society that PAYS for the monsters it makes. there IS a balancing of accounts here throughout the story...do the math...Hahsi Lebwohl, Milos, Angus' mother, the "system" whose "cracks" he fell through as a child...i don't really think you can say that Angus got off scott free.

but once again, i'll agree to disagree. it's perspective and you're entitled yours.

[Nav]

I think of the Gap characters I actually liked Min, Dolph, Hashi, Koina, Mikka, Sib, Lane and Sorus. I liked Angus' dark wit, but he was a monster when we first met him, even though he does appear to have gotten better by the time the book ends. I think him taking off with the Motherlode fitted in very well with the character, but I never really bought his motivation for going to get Holt in the first place. If Warden had told him he could keep the ship though, that would have made much more sense to me.

[CovenantJr]

I too had something of a problem with Angus effectively emerging from it all better off than when he started. Yes, he suffered horrible torments before and during the events of the books, but so did most of the other characters, and they were all made to pay for every crime they may have committed. Angus was turned loose and given the best vessel money can buy.

And I agree with Nav that I wasn't convinced by his motives for killing Holt. Personally, I would have found it more understandable - and more in character - if he decided to hold Holt responsible for everything he'd suffered (directly, in that Holt effectively created the current society, and indirectly, in that Angus' welding etc occurred as a means to thwart Holt) and went after him for that reason.

In fact, the ending was my least favourite part of the Gap. Part of it is the above Angus-gripe, and part of it is Holt's demise. All that complexity, all Warden's manipulations, gambles, plots...all that effort to get the system to bring Holt down...and ultimately he's just killed by Angus. Warden could have done that straight off the bat; sent the welded Angus straight to Holt's station to kill him. There are probably reasons that wouldn't have worked, but I was left with an unsatisfying sense that all the scope of five books came to culmination in one act of simple violence. Meh.

[lucimay]

oh blame Wagner.

[Reisheiruhime]

I just realized something about why I think Angus is so hot. I'm using Jack Black as him.

Seriously, I want Jack Black to play Angus if they have a movie.

[lucimay]

I just realized something about why I think Angus is so hot. I'm using Jack Black as him.

Seriously, I want Jack Black to play Angus if they have a movie.

uh...Turiya...i'm really really glad to see you but...jack black? that is just wrong.

[Elfgirl]

Funny, I cast Jack Black as Orn Vorbuld in my "ultimate Gap cast", but he could work as Angus!

Then again, so could Joe Mantegna.

*sorry, I should be posting this in the GAP filmed topic, but the Jack Black mention made me do it!*

[Reisheiruhime]

I just realized something about why I think Angus is so hot. I'm using Jack Black as him.

Seriously, I want Jack Black to play Angus if they have a movie.

uh...Turiya...i'm really really glad to see you but...jack black? that is just wrong.

'Tis noy wrong! Jack Black is hot!

[Reisheiruhime]

I also believe that the ICP song, Dating Game, should be played when Morn and Angus are in the sickbay and he's laying down the law to her. It just seems so.... Appropriate for the moment.

-TF (R)

[callback]

I think that's why I quit reading during the third book last time, and why I'm still struggling with this series on my second attempt. I have nobody to latch onto and identify with. I don't actually LIKE anyone in the books. And the physical surroundings aren't soothing like the Land. In Covenant, I could probably give you a list of people I actually liked - suffered and died with as they went through the story. In Gap I just don't have that as a motivator, but I do find the setting and craft of the story to be very compelling - but there's no joy in any particular character.

There will be by the time you end the whole story. But that's why I think this is Donaldson's weakest epic. It's darn hard to find a positive character to identify with until you hit book 4.

[missmobius]

I bonded with Angus right from the get go.

For some reason I felt sorry for Angus, and when it was revealed how badly he was abused by his mother I become even more bonded to his character.

I forgive Angus for his past crimes. I'm glad he got to keep the ship, and I would love if there was a book 6 called Angus' Redemption.

I'd love to know where he goes and what he does.

By far Angus was my favourite person in the books, followed by Hashi, Warden, Nick (I hated that they killed Nick off, I absolutely went nuts when they did, and the cruel way they brought him back, only to kill him off again, I was so angry I wanted to stop reading the books!!!)

But I had to continue to see if Angus made it out alive.

I couldn't totally connect with Morn for some reason. I adored Davies!!! and my heart broke for Ciro.

Just a great series of books, and I hated it when I finished them. I want them to go on and on and on!!

[CovenantJr]

I couldn't totally connect with Morn for some reason.

My Morn problem is the same as my Linden problem (in fact, I have argued before that Morn is Linden...) - there was little or nothing in either of them that resonated with me. Angus, Nick, Hashi and Warden, on the other hand, all had characters that to some extent reflected facets of myself. Even Holt did, at times.

[A Gunslinger]

I have just this very second decide to re-read the GAP.

[A Gunslinger]

I have just this very second decide to re-read the GAP.

I am almost done! Gods...it is a masterpiece. The drama..the sheer shakesperian nature of the tapestry SRD weaves with threads of lies/secrets/genetic need/contempt are vast and astonishing. The detail....

My brain hurts...

....maybe I need a zone implant.