"R" rating versus "PG13"

[sgt.null]

then maybe better publicity is in order. call Oprah and get her to endorse it one her book of the month club.

[Matthias]

I just want to break my feelings down...

If it is rated "R" then I will not see it.

Short, simple, to the point. It's just a matter of principle. and i'm sure there's a lot of others out there who love the book, but will not see the rated R version on screen. My thing is, if it's rated R or PG-13, it's still not going to capture the true glory of the books anyways.

[sgt.null]

not sure if i understand. if it is true to the book it gets an R. you love the book. but you won't see a movie true to the series?

[Matthias]

I realize that if the book was wholeheartedly and explicitly true to the book, it will be rated R. If it isn't, and it's PG-13, it won't be as explicit as the book anyways, but i suppose i'll see it.

I have no doubt in my mind that the producers will make it as true to the book as they possibly can. Because of being rated R, i probably won't see it. Truth be told, i would love to see a representation on screen, but, for me, either way it doesn't look so good. My reasons are my own.

[Shuram Gudatetris]

An R-rated version could do very well. The Matrix series was R-rated and it did very well, which shows that there is a large adult audience out there which is interested in sci-fi/fantasy movies with adult themes.

[Matthias]

An R-rated version could do very well. The Matrix series was R-rated and it did very well, which shows that there is a large adult audience out there which is interested in sci-fi/fantasy movies with adult themes.

Most of those who went to see the Matrix series were as young as 14. I was in Ecuador, South America at the time when the Matrix first started coming out (7th - 8th grade) and every one in my class went to see Matrix.

My point is that nobody really cares about the limitation of ages that the "Rated R" brings with it. All kids would see it if their parents would let them. It's all about the blood, guts, sex and bad language nowadays that seems appealing (I really don't know why).

I concede that there's an adult audience willing to watch scifi and fantasy movies. Morally, all the things i listed above as a part of the Rated-R "Experience" are not very healthy, especially when shown on a big screen.

In the TCoTC, there's a rape scene that's a crucial part in the storyline. Why would anyone want to watch a graphic rape scene...on a big screen? Rape in itself is a horrible crime to commit and nowadays I don't think we need to see or hear any more of it. Hopefully, if they did decide to do a movie, the director(s) and producer(s) would be wise to know that. If the rape scene was implied, I would be content.

But, that's the Gospel according to Me. take it as thou wilt.

[wayfriend]

There's rated R, and then there's rated R.

The Matrix was rated R, for violence and language (I presume). Kids went to see it, but parents are okay with their kids seeing a movie with violence and language. If it was rated R with topless sex scenes, I bet it would not have been so acceptible.

And, rather than not letting their kids see the movie, there would be a backlash about having movies for kids with sex scenes in it. And they'd be partly correct - you can't make happy meal toys for a movie, and then expect the kids to stay home because it is rated R.

So ... to me, it's about rape or no rape, and it doesn't matter what the rating is.

Rape in itself is a horrible crime to commit and nowadays I don't think we need to see or hear any more of it.

What if we changed "rape" to "unprotected sex"? That could strike the right tone of moral outrage without changing the entire plot.

[Warmark]

I dont see how reading about a rape scene is better than seeing one on the big screen.

Personally, i want the rape in it.

[Shuram Gudatetris]

I think the rape scene can be left in the movie without it being too graphic. Show everything right up to the point which Covenant ravishes her, and then cut to the next scene. Right before the cut, show the fear in Lena's eyes or something. The movie audience will know it happened by the way it was filmed without ever having to see blood running down Lena's loins.

[wayfriend]

I think the rape scene can be left in the movie without it being too graphic. Show everything right up to the point which Covenant ravishes her, and then cut to the next scene. Right before the cut, show the fear in Lena's eyes or something. The movie audience will know it happened by the way it was filmed without ever having to see blood running down Lena's loins.

Um ... I don't think anyone argues for that level of graphic depiction!

No, I think showing everything right up to the point, and then cutting away, is what is, arguably, too much.

[iQuestor]

I think it has to be true to the book in order to do it up right-- its the way I would want it. I have seen too many movies which changes were made, and cant think of one that was better or as good as the book.

The rape scene would make it R rated. You have to show enough to make the audience feel the proper disgust and abhorrance for covenant that is so critical to the storyline. the characters -- Atarian's rage and downfall, Triock's attempted murder , Trell's ROD, none of these characters motivations would hit home without it.

[Farm Ur-Ted]

I have seen too many movies which changes were made, and cant think of one that was better or as good as the book.

Oh, come on. I haven't seen the movie (or read the book), but from everything I've heard, Demi Moore totally improved The Scarlet Letter by giving it a new ending. Nathanial Hawthorne was a butt-munch.

[balon!]

It's got to be R. Wouldn't work any other way.

[andyjames]

1) Can an "R" rated epic fantasy series ever find backing?

Pan's Labyrinth is doing very well as a limited release. It's not a series, but is an r rated epic fantasy movie.

2) Can a fantasy series that not only does not seek but eschews the children's market ever be viable as a big production (i.e., get made with enough money to do the books justice)?

it worked for science fiction. just look at The Matrix. sci-i movies for adults are made all the time. i don't see why fantasy should be any different.

3) Can TCTC survive the "PG13" rating without serious harm?

no way

4) Can issues like rape be "implied" over the heads of children? Should they in this context?

i think if you are going to teach children about rape, the covenant books or movies are not the proper way to do it. but rape (as well as many other wonderful topics like sexual abuse, bestiality, kidnapping, child murder, etc.) can be implied over the heads of children. read Grimm's fairy tales. kids are going to learn about this stuff anyway, and i'd rather them be eased into the moral side of it from my perspective as opposed to a full on assault of hardcore amoral realism.

on a related note, i'm looking at some of my collectables and I have Hannibal Lector and Jay And Silent Bob action figures. these are beloved film characters. is it that much of a stretch to throw a heroic rapist in there with a smarmy cannibal and loveable drug addicts?

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

1) Can an "R" rated epic fantasy series ever find backing?

P'sL did...but it was just one movie, it was of a different kind of fantasy, and it didn't cost $100 mil...I do believe there are daring peeps that might support it.

2) Can a fantasy series that not only does not seek but eschews the children's market ever be viable as a big production (i.e., get made with enough money to do the books justice)?

My imaginary hats off to exnihilo for this question...brilliant. I would agree with most others in that there is a definate niche, but large scale marketing and financing would be very difficult.

3) Can TCTC survive the "PG13" rating without serious harm?

NO. The number one thing about marketing your product is to create a niche...a way/place/concept in-between that of your competitors (LoTR, Narnia, Tarabithia) that people can identify and will find useful.

TC needs the R...like it's own lifeblood.

4) Can issues like rape be "implied" over the heads of children? Should they in this context?

Rape is rape...kids feel and understand more than we ever realize...so I would say no...though I would never get rid of the scene...never.

[Blackhawk]

They need to release it as an R movie,mostly for Violence and Disturbing/Scarey Creatures and the rape scene could be Extremely Minimised but still implied to give the watcher confusion and anger but no visual of the Rape scene. oh and the scene where Elena and Covenant get a little too friendly needs to be turned into a hug or something, LOL , JK but....(shiver),...heres a little reaction to the mentioned scenes when they happen...

PG might attract alot more parents and special interest funding..and on the DVD or Blueray you have the "Extended or Directors Cut Edition", which are usually unrated anyway. like LOTR..with an extra 45 minutes added. plus its going to be a big budget movie..all the special effects needed would be costly, but worth it, if it was marketed in the right way..and that is such an ugly word to be associated with the thought of the land but thats the only way its going to happen.. it could get a good following, almost all of the new CGI and Fantasy movies get reviewed, if its good it gets flooded..if its bad..STDVD, but thats all on the Shelf for now, unless some eccentric Multimillionaire demands that he have the script no matter what the cost. .... anyone???

[Mr. Broken]

Lets see violent sexual assault, children licking blood from their fingers, Giants with exploding skulls, genocide, euthanasia, naked Saltheart Foamfollower, and religious cults that practice human sacrifice. They'll be lucky if they can get an R in the states, Sin City, and Kill Bill, both had to change the color of blood in certain scenes to escape NC-17.

[Ur Dead]

Was it mention the sence between Covenant and Elena?

With all of the above it could get the R rating if not PG-17

[Skyweir]

would any one recommed the chronicles to any one under 13 or 13 year olds generally??

I wouldnt

I am not sure how Australian rating systems differ but I cannot imagine it would be rated R here .. it would likely be rated MA .. for mature audiences only .. or M .. recommended for mature audiences (over 15yrs)

depending on how graphic the rape scene is depicted and how it is conceptually merged into the rest of the movie ..

But as the rape of Lena is central to the story line .. it would have to be dcepicted powerfully .. as it is that which consolodates Covenant's self=loathing .. its that which incites passionate hatred in Trell .. the rape is much more than just a scene .. its a central concept.

its not only one of the reasons TC hates himself it is why TC is loathed generally .. it is the foundation of the mistrust in others and in himself ..

tha loathing is relevant ..

[Mr. Broken]

In answer, I would not recommend this story to anyone child or adult that I didnt feel could handle it. Ive made this mistake before , and instead of gaining someone to discuss the book with, I gained an adversary that will not read anything that I suggest. Mental toughness, and the ability to keep an open mind are definitely prerequisite.