Replacing Dead Bloodguard

[dlbpharmd]

I'm trying to think of Bloodguard who were NOT replaced after their deaths. Obviously, these were Bloodguard whose bodies could not be recovered. I've come up with a few obvious names:

1) Tuvor (died in Kiril Threndor)
2) Morin (died in Earthroot)
3) Cerrin (died trying to save Lord Shetra in the Defiles Course)
4) Thomin (died at the hands of Fleshharrower outside Doom's Retreat)

Can anyone think of any others?

[Forestal]

As I remember there were two that died with Lord Shetra, but I dont know if the other was named...

And this list is always going to be incomplete because of the 40 year gap between the crons.

But none the less, good luck... I would help but obviously I cant...

[edit - wasn't there one that died at the battle of soaring woodhelven?]

[duchess of malfi]

One did die there but they were able to recover his body, so he was replaced.
I have always wondered about the ones who died on Lord Mhoram's scouting trip. I think it is said that all of the Bloodguard with him were killed, but I think it also says in Gilden-fire that one of the younger ones that went on Korik's mission was a replacement for one of the ones who died on the scouting trip.
Did Mhoram send the bodies back then for replacement himself?

And where was Terrel????

[Forestal]

We've already talked about where Terrel was in a previous thread... I forget which...

I really should read this gilden-fire book everyone is talking about...

(500th post nice milestone)

[dlbpharmd]

One did die there but they were able to recover his body, so he was replaced.
I have always wondered about the ones who died on Lord Mhoram's scouting trip. I think it is said that all of the Bloodguard with him were killed, but I think it also says in Gilden-fire that one of the younger ones that went on Korik's mission was a replacement for one of the ones who died on the scouting trip.
Did Mhoram send the bodies back then for replacement himself?

And where was Terrel????

Tull was on Korik's mission, and HT says in the Tull's Tale chapter that he was one of the youngest Bloodguard, having replaced one who was killed on Mhoram's scouting trip.

First Mark Morin sent 200 Bloodguard with Callindrill to hold Fleshharrower's army in TIW. We're told later that approximately 100-120 are killed. No telling how many of those were replaced.

By the time that Bannor is First Mark and Korik, Sill and Doar attack Revelstone, I estimate that there may have been 400-450 Bloodguard left. Any thoughts/comments?

[Landwaster]

Did Sill keep on keeping on like British Paints?

[Landwaster]

Whoops, looks like dlb's last post already answered my question.

[Cloudberry]

When the dead bloodguard were returned on their Ranyhyn did the haruchai back home know who they where? After 2000 years.

Since the haruchai in the second chronicles still could speak the Lands language and knew about TC they probably knew right away...

Amazing that a race like the haruchai can have such good memory. It must have something to do with their telepathic skills?

[Seafoam Understone]

Since the Haruchai's homeland is pretty much obscure to us faithful readers (and posters) it's hard to say but one can imagine the Haruchai in their mountain homes. For me I see them being born, living, and dying of old age much as anyone else. The difference is their story telling and their awareness of their responsibilities to the Land and the Lords to keep up their "stock" of warriors to replace the ones who died in service.
One can also say that while strapping the bodies to the broad backs of Ranyhyn that subtle codes as to the identities of the dead are left for the Haruchai to find. Even after 2000 years. It didn't matter if anyone recognized them, except for the descendants of the dead's lineage so to know where to bury them.

I'm also guessing that the Haruchai had also the Giantish gift of tongues. Thus able to speak the Land's language or anyone's for that matter. They understood the Kassadum well enough in the 2nd Chronicles.
But that goes back to how TC (and later LA) were able to understand.

Speaking of their telepathic skills one wonders just how FAR those said skills could reach?

[jehannum_2000]

For those Bloodguard whose bodies were irrecoverable, couldn't the Lords have used non-Bloodguard corpses and just disfigured them so much that the Haruchai wouldn't be able to tell, e.g. by burning them?

I don't know how their Ranyhyn would have been persuaded to go along with this. Perhaps an extra handful of amanibhavam?

Pete.

[Forestal]

I thought of this before... but I don't think the Lords would be that dis-honourable...

[Skyweir]

For those Bloodguard whose bodies were irrecoverable, couldn't the Lords have used non-Bloodguard corpses and just disfigured them so much that the Haruchai wouldn't be able to tell, e.g. by burning them?

I don't know how their Ranyhyn would have been persuaded to go along with this. Perhaps an extra handful of amanibhavam?

Pete.

mmm .. interesting theory .. i can just picture it now .. Mhoram and the other Lords hovering over the deceased bodies of landers and hacking, cutting and pasting bits off and on to make them more haruchai like

[Landwaster]

Well that sounds a bit gruesome, so I'd instead suggest they just put a sign around the neck of the corpse that says "I am Haruchai. Really I am."

[Forestal]

what i wonder is... if the haruchai can talk to each other psychic-like... wouldn't they know when one of them died? or wouldn't the other live haruchai be able to tell the others that the haruchai in question was dead but un-recoverable?

[Man Of Westernesse]

I was about to post a new Topic - when i found this one..!

[Has anyone here done any investigation of just how many Bloodguard may remain at the timeof the first or second Chrons?

I'm on a regular re-read of the series and this time around it just struck me that a good many of the slain Bloodguard are lost and never get replaced. This is probably particularly true of Hile Troy's expensve campaign in the Centre Plains where he commits 200 of them to hold up the invasion and draw it south. How many of the 120 or so (?) Bloodguard who died in that running battle are likely to have been recovered after death and sent to Guards Gap to be replaced? - very few I would think.

Same for some we knew for certain were lost:- Tuvour, Thomin (with Verement at DR), Cerrin (who was lost with Shetra), Morrin (killed by dead Kevin and unrecovered), the original Ak-Haru?, others??]

(^^ copy/paste from my (un-created) new thread)

... so all-in-all, over the centuries a LOT of the original 500 had to be lost/unrecovered/unreplaced.

& so a lot fewer than dlbpharmd's estimated 400-450 remaining i would have thought?

[hyarmion]

If I can just go back to the original postings.

Some good questions are raised: How did Terrel survive Mhoram's scouting mission to Foul's Creche, if all the Bloodguard with Mhoran were killed? I have often wondered that.

If, really, all the Bloodguard with Mhoram were killed, then yes I can imagine him sending their bodies back to the Mountains himself. At least he must have loaded them onto the Ranyhyn himself (the Ranyhyn may have sat down to make the job easier).

But the really important question: Did the Bloodguard have some nasty initiation ritual for the 'boys' who came down from the Mountains as replacements?

[Forestal]

RE: Initiations

I would think that there would be some kind of fighting ceremony... there was one for leadership once I believe, but I don't remember which book it was in, it was such a long time ago that I read the books.

It would stand to reason that as new recruits arrived, they would be tested and trained by the older and more experienced members, so they they knew exactly who was strongest and who was weakest. Sort of like Spartan culture in that regard. In order to do their duty properly (protect the Lords), they would need to know exactly what their strength was.

[dlbpharmd]

RE: Initiations

I would think that there would be some kind of fighting ceremony... there was one for leadership once I believe, but I don't remember which book it was in, it was such a long time ago that I read the books.

It would stand to reason that as new recruits arrived, they would be tested and trained by the older and more experienced members, so they they knew exactly who was strongest and who was weakest. Sort of like Spartan culture in that regard. In order to do their duty properly (protect the Lords), they would need to know exactly what their strength was.

Gilden-fire gives that account, but it is considered non-canonical.

[Forestal]

Technically. I think for the purpose of this line of thought, it is canonical enough to qualify.

[jackgiantkiller]

Dont 4get the three mutilated to look like TC they were also killed