The Land's population (at various times)

Post by **Landwaster** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:43 am

Did the books tell us the full populace of the Land at any time?

How about Mithil Stonedown, at least in LFB ... was there any mention of a population?

Doriendor Corishev at the height of its power? How many people in that city?

I don't think the books told us these things, did they?

I have a funny idea the population of Revelstone was mentioned at one time and/or another. Same for Coercri.

Post by **Seafoam Understone** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:57 am

I dunno about Revelstone... or the other cities but I got a quote from Lena as she leads TC to her home...

As she and Covenant started down toward the Stonedown, Lena said, "Five times a hundred people of the South Plains live here -- rhadhamaerl, Shepherds, Cattleherds, Farmers, and those who Craft

so at least it was a sizable little village of 500.

Soaring Woodhelven I believe was also a sizable city and all in a tree. Hard to imagine a tree that big to house X # of people and have a little cottage industry going on as well.

If I'm not mistaken I think Revelstone had a population of well over a couple thousand. This includes Warward, Lords, Bloodguard and regular folk... like us.

Post by **Landwaster** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 6:24 am

Ahh cool Foamy! 500 in Mithil, that one's a start! Yeah Soaring was probably supposed to have something similar to that of Mithil.

I have a funny idea that the population of Revelstone is leaked at some stage in TPTP ... or maybe in the TIW.

Now another thing I'd love to work out would be the proliferation of Stonedowns/Woodhelvens throughout the South, Center and North Plains at that time, but I don't think that's mentioned.

Post by **Gil galad** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:30 am

how many people were in the lands army in the illearth war?

Post by **variol son** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:51 am

Just before TIW, Revelstone housed an army of 50 Eoward, or 21,050 warriors if my calculations are correct. If the army was that big during war, when the army is bigger than usual, I would guess that the city would have a total population of maybe 40,000 to 50,000 people.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Post by **Damelon** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:13 pm

The army was drawn from all the Land. To have 20,000+ doing nothing but military training, not being able to plant or harvest the crops, would suggest a fairly large population for the Land. My guess it would be between 1-2 million for the total population for the Land.

Post by **Landwaster** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:48 pm

I dunno, 1-2 million seems pretty high ...

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 3:05 pm

Not necessarily. We never hear of how many 500+ villages there are--Stonedowns, etc. Probably quite a few, plus Revelstone. And Landwaster, are you talking humans? Or everyone? Like a census of theLand?

Post by **Forestal** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 3:19 pm

i wouldn't say hundred, but i always assumed there were at least a few hundred thousand in the land..

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:44 pm

I think Damelon is pretty close on this. To have an army that large you would have to have a pretty big population base to support it. Also, in the few years between TIW and TPTP, the Lords were able to build up another army for the defrense of Revelstone. Again, this indicates to me a big enough population to send off some of the kids not needed for farming...

Post by **Forestal** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:03 pm

yeah you've got a point there...

Post by **Damelon** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 6:02 pm

This is off topic, but Forestal, you have the coolest avatar at the Watch.

Post by **Forestal** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 8:03 pm

thanks muchies

i love my avatar too

Post by **danlo** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 8:30 pm

Damelon wrote: "This is off topic, but Forestal, you have the coolest avatar at the Watch" I disagree, just to be a pain...

Post by **Forestal** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:45 pm

well your out-voted

Post by **UrLord** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:33 pm

well, you're out-grammared

Post by **Landwaster** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:32 pm

(yeah nice av)

Don't forget that these days we can get a lot done war-wise with a small number of defence troops.

Back in days of yore, a good heady percentage of the population were signed up as defenders of their realms. The warward could very well have been 25% of the entire population.

Post by **Variol Farseer** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:35 am

Landwaster wrote:(yeah nice av) :P

Don't forget that these days we can get a lot done war-wise with a small number of defence troops.

Back in days of yore, a good heady percentage of the population were signed up as defenders of their realms. The warward could very well have been 25% of the entire population.

That usually happens in countries that are quite homogeneous and geographically compact, and such armies are usually maintained for only one campaigning season. Also, the Warward was a full-time professional army, rigorously trained. Few countries have ever maintained a regular army larger than about 2% of the population. The population of the Land was spread thinly over an enormous area with few means of transportation, making it difficult to gather supplies for a large army. It must have taxed Revelstone's resources severely to support over 20,000 warriors for any length of time. Lord Foul no doubt used the power of the Illearth Stone to generate food for his armies, something Hile Troy never expected:

'He did not understand how the Despiser's army could be so big. It surpassed his most terrible nightmares.'
( TIW, chapter 18 )

All this suggests a population of perhaps a million for the Upper Land excluding the Plains of Ra (which did not send recruits to the Warward). That sounds like a lot, but it's really very sparse. Somewhere in the Second Chronicles SRD mentions 'a hundred thousand square leagues of Sunbane'. If he is using the English league (3 miles), that makes the Upper Land 900,000 square miles in area -- bigger than Mexico. A million people in that area would give it something like the average population density of Alaska. Not very crowded at all.

On the other hand, the population may have been a good deal smaller. In TPTP, the Center Plains are said to have been evacuated and the population brought to Revelstone. We may suppose that some went to the South Plains or the mountains instead, whichever was closest, or across the Soulsease into the North Plains. But I don't get the impression that Revelstone could have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees without bursting at the seams.

It's a conundrum. A population big enough to support 20,000 warriors would almost certainly be too big to fit within the walls of Revelstone, even in an emergency. There doesn't appear to be a perfect answer, and I even doubt whether SRD himself had any specific figure in mind.

Post by **Seafoam Understone** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:05 am

Farseer":
That usually happens in countries that are quite homogeneous and geographically compact, and such armies are usually maintained for only one campaigning season. Also, the Warward was a full-time professional army, rigorously trained. Few countries have ever maintained a regular army larger than about 2% of the population.

It may have been similar to Switzerland where it's manditory to enter the military at a certain age and then choice after your service period is up. But if that country should ever be called to war then they have a large percentage of the population with prior military training to draw upon.

Riders I guess could've been sent from Revelstone bearing the Warwards standard and recruiting those having already been trained or willing to serve. Then it would be drop your hoes and rakes and pick up your spears and swords and onto War.

I recall reading that resources were available in the lands above Revelstone, so you can imagine large farms of crops and cattle(?) being raised just to feed that city.

Covenant was staggered by the size of Revelstone as were the Giants of the Search. So the numbers guessed might not be too far off.

Also Landwaster: someone in a different thread posted something about "less than a thousand giants stepped off their ships and made their home at Coeceri/Seareach giving up hope of ever finding their homeland. With that in mind his Caamora at the end of TWL must've taken a while as all the giants there were slain... except for four.

Post by **Landwaster** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:27 pm

Yeah there were supplies up above Revelstone, that's why Foul launched that winter.

Well, I'm reckoning about 250,000 ... but that's just me being subjective.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

The Land's population (at various times)

The Land's population (at various times)