What the HELL happened at the end of Book 4??? (Spoilers)

[Loredoctor]

Thanks, Lady Genni. I had forgotten that Nick beat morn up. I do recall now that he entered her room later in the second book and threw her to the bed and forced sex on her. I believe that was rape. Ah, why must we defend characters in the Gap series?! Difficult to do when they're all so corrupt.

[kevinswatch]

Wow. I really like that site you posted, robo. I have to read the whole thing sometime.-jay

[MsMary]

I have to say I found Nick's death very satisfying and had no regrets at all about it (except possibly that he was unable to complete his revenge on Sorus before he died). I thought he was a truly despicable character, full of himself, and willing to do anything in order to make himself come out looking like he was on top and "the best." I had the feeling that he would have sold his own mother if it would be to his advantage. He was not above screwing (both figuratively and literally) anyone he had to screw in order to get what wanted.

I loved what Sorus did at the end. She was blackmailed by the Amnion and the threat of mutation for years, but finally all the violence and deceit became too much for her. I love that she turned on the Amnion at the end, even though it resulted in her death.

~MsMary~

[robo]

"unable to complete his revenge"? Well, that's an understatement:)

Sorus didn't get fed up with the Amion over time - she FINALLY found an opportunity to escape. That was ALWAYS on her mind.

[Vain]

My 2 cents

I always figured Sib as a side issue - maybe I missed something along the way but compared to Morn and Angus and Nick and Hashi and Dios....he just seemed to pale into insignificance.

As for Angus - I figure we need to look at Angus in 2 halves. One half before he was turned into a robot and the other afterwards. Impossible to feel sorry for the first half but when he was having cigareets stubbed out in his mouth I kinda felt sorry for him. Besides - he seems rather tormented

Nick was cool - a swashbuckler at best

[Loredoctor]

Nick will always be my favourite character. So what if his swashbuckler persona was all an act? Vain's right: Nick was cool. As for Angus - sorry, I can't pity a murderer and someone who sold around twenty people to the Amnion.

[MsMary]

I felt sorry when Sib died, but Vain is right, he was a peripheral character for most of the story.

I also agreed with you, Vain, about feeling somewhat sorry for Angus after he got his zone implants and all. You really get more insight into his background and psyche in the later books...not that that justifies his vile acts! But it made me, at least, think more about his character and motivations.

Nick was a cool character, but that just made his demise that much more satisfying.

~MsMary~

[Hearthcoal]

...sooooorrreeee! Maybe it's his ego...but I can't stomach him. I'll take Angus any day (despite all of his transgressions and as monumental as they were).

Now that I think about it, Angus redeemed himself (at least in my eyes), even if it was unwillingly, by being retrofitted as a cyborg, and then finding a way to regain control of himself.

Nick never redeemed himself.

And maybe that's one of the things SRD is addressing...the circumstances that are beyond one's control (the crib, for instance) and then one's response to those circumstances.

Angus finds himself twice a victim, but his response the second time around is much different than his first response.

Nick only gets to be victim once and his response sorta speaks for itself.

- Hearthcoal

[Acheron]

I didn't mind the end of Chaos and Order at all. I think Nick's story had gone as far as it could go, he'd lost everything and no one was listening to him anymore. The fact that Sorus finished him off illustrated just how pathetic he'd become over the course of the series.

I was less convinced about Sib's death. It struck me that it was a poor plot device to make Nick's lust for revenge that bit more bloody. Couldn't Angus have taken him outside and kept a gun on him until he was out of sight?

Sorus' death was a nice touch though, she clearly thought that Soar was going to be able to finish off Calm Horizons. It's interesting to think that if it wasn't for Nick trashing the proton cannon she would have destroyed the defensive with ease, so Nick did get a measure of revenge against her after all. On top of that, I think the moment when she kills Milos has to be amongst the most satisfying of the entire series!

For those of you who worry about how the death toll will affect A Dark and Hungry God... my advice is don't. There's plenty more characters to play with.

[Acheron]

I didn't mind the end of Chaos and Order at all. I think Nick's story had gone as far as it could go, he'd lost everything and no one was listening to him anymore. The fact that Sorus finished him off illustrated just how pathetic he'd become over the course of the series.

I was less convinced about Sib's death. It struck me that it was a poor plot device to make Nick's lust for revenge that bit more bloody. Couldn't Angus have taken him outside and kept a gun on him until he was out of sight?

Sorus' death was a nice touch though, she clearly thought that Soar was going to be able to finish off Calm Horizons. It's interesting to think that if it wasn't for Nick trashing the proton cannon she would have destroyed the defensive with ease, so Nick did get a measure of revenge against her after all. On top of that, I think the moment when she kills Milos has to be amongst the most satisfying of the entire series!

For those of you who worry about how the death toll will affect A Dark and Hungry God... my advice is don't. There's plenty more characters to play with.

[Landwaster]

Wow, surely no-one really means to paint Nick as just misunderstood! He was a bad, bad man ... and his intentions with Davies, AND his actions with Morn, made even Angus shake his head with disgust.

Basically everybody in the Gap was dealing with extremely high-level unresolved trauma, but only Angus' was through prolonged, almost ritual, abuse.

Then Nick perpetrated prolonged abuse upon Morn.

Sorry, Angus has more in his defence than does Nick, and I'm no fan of Angus.

[robo]

nope, don't agree.

[Landwaster]

nope, don't agree.

Well, they're scum, that's what I reckon.

[robo]

Have you read Crossing the Gap?

homepages.ihug.co.nz/~gperry/Gap.htm

I share the views of that author with regards to the various story topics including the Angus vs Nick comparison. She's much more eloquent than I.

[Landwaster]

Have you read Crossing the Gap?

homepages.ihug.co.nz/~gperry/Gap.htm

I share the views of that author with regards to the various story topics including the Angus vs Nick comparison. She's much more eloquent than I.

Crikey! [sends to work printer]

[Nav]

I thought the deaths of Nick and Sorus were very well done indeed. Nick's story had come as far as it could, he'd lost his ship and with it the only people who still believed in his bucaneer image. All he had left was the possibility of revenge over Sorus. The fact that Sorus shot him showed us just how pathetic he'd become.

Sorus' doom I thought was even better. She had every reason to think that with Calm Horizons particle sinks cross-linked away from Soar that her attack would gut the big defensive and hence win freedom for her and her crew. Nick's legacy to her was the destruction of Soar's proton cannon, which would easily have taken out Calm Horizons, meaning he was indirectly responsible for her death. I think that the moment when Sorus turns on Milos has to be one of the most satisfying in the entire series!

I though Sib's death was a flimsy plot device though, adding more weight to Nick's insane quest for revenge, and I thought that the death of

Spoiler

late on in This Day... served no purpose except to fill a couple of paragraphs.

[Loredoctor]

I don't understand why people think Nick was worse than Angus. Angus abused Morn far longer than what Nick did. Angus was a rapist and murderer, sold people to the amnion, and if it hadn't of been for his zone-implants would have continued to do so. Sure Angus had suffered abuse, but I've never accepted that excuse; he still chose to act the way he did.

[Landwaster]

Here is my reasoning, in case you missed it :

Basically everybody in the Gap was dealing with extremely high-level unresolved trauma, but only Angus' was through prolonged, almost ritual, abuse. Then Nick perpetrated prolonged abuse upon Morn.

[Loredoctor]

Yes, Angus was dealing with his trauma through abusing Morn, and the same is said for Nick. yet, as far as I can recall, Nick started abusing Morn around the time Captain's Fancy turned up at enablement. Only a few days pass before the end of the Gap series. Nick pretty much stopped his abuse of Morn around the time Trumpet turned up at Beckmann's lab. On the other hand, Angus was abusing Morn for weeks. Rape, physical violence, not to mention installing, and frequently, using a zone-implant on Morn. The worst Nick did was sell Morn to the Amnion. Anyway, at the end of the Gap series, Morn actually cries for Nick - for what she did to him (though, in her position she had no choice).

[Landwaster]

I suppose I'm basing my opinion on how it seemed Angus hated himself for what he was doing, while Nick loved himself for what he was doing.