A thought on elohim

[Creator]

I posted the following as a question to SRD in the GI. In reflecting on it, I believe The Mahdoubt is the freed elohim of the colossus of the fall!

What do you think my Watch brothers and sisters!?

Threads of your answers and thoughts of the Chronicles suggest a question.

AN ANSWER

First, from your answer to a question (CAPS mine)

"The Elohim are pure embodiments of Earthpower. They are immortal (i.e. lacking in mortality) in the same sense that Earthpower itself is immortal: Earthpower is the life-blood of, well, life, and THE ELOHIM WILL LIVE AS LONG AS THE EARTH LIVES".

THE TEXT

We know of three Elohim that were appointed; Kastenessen, the Colossus, and Findail.

First Kastenessen: from The One Tree - "we were compelled to bind him to his place, reaving him of name and choice and time to set him as a keystone for the threatened foundation of the north".

Then the Colossus: "... bind her in stone, exercising her name and being to form an interdict against that hate. Thus was she lost to herself and to her people-but the interdict remained while the will of the forest remained to hold it."

And we know how Findail was 'bound' with Vain to form the new staff.

THE QUESTIONS

In Runes, we find out that Kastenessen has been freed. This suggests that 'appointing' can be 'un-done'.

So, what about the Elohim that formed the Colossus of the Fall?

In The Wounded Land we find from Caer-Caveral that "The Colossus has fallen." that "the Sunbane had destroyed the forests, unbinding the will of wood which had upheld for millennia that stone monolith."

If the will of the wood was unbound ... and if elohim are immortal ... was she freed as well? If not, what happened to her?

Does this suggest that there is a power ... perhaps white gold, that can unbind Vain and Findail?

[EDIT: I searched The Mahdoubt thread and found:

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 710#189710

Looks like this option was mentioned by Borillar ... and I liked it then! You'll forgive me for forgetting. The post is over two years old!!

It will be interesting to hear SRD's response!! ]

[variol son]

Ooer - the Mahdoubt as the freed Elohim of the Colossus of the Fall? I like it!

I can't wait for SRD to answer your question.

[Ramen]

A very good idea.
But then she is a sort of atypically elohim - so kind.
But perhaps all the long years of warding against the ravers has had a softening influence on her
I´m anxious to know what SRD answeres and if he gives a little hint.

[Usivius]

But then she is a sort of atypically elohim - so kind.
But perhaps all the long years of warding against the ravers has had a softening influence on her

perhaps an off the cuff comment, but I do beleive it is true. And to back up further, I really like the Mahdoubt/Colossus theory....

good one guys...

[Creator]

Credit to Borillar who was there first!!

I wonder if the Last Dark will see Vain (a dark) and Findail separated!!

[Romeo]

That's a *very* interesting idea!

My original thought was that the Mahdoubt was created by Revelstone to serve its residents - sort of an embodiment of its welcome and goodwill. The Lords provided and nurtured this using earthpower. But when the Masters took over, the Keep itself realized that it needed to take a larger role. And I believe Covenant re-awakened "The Revelstone" during the Sooth Tell. You don't find mention of it in any of the books, but that is what the glowing stone in front of the Lords' private chambers is called (it's mentioned in The Atlas of the Land). Plus, Steve said early on that the Mahdoubt "appeared" for him when he needed her character in the story.

But I like your theory better - it has more of the depth that I'd expect from a Covenant plot.

[Warmark]

Do we know exactly when the Colossus fell? We are told in the Second Chrons its fallen, so i wonder where the elohim was during that time?

[A Gunslinger]

I like it too, but what on Foul's brown Earth would an Elohim be doing serving as a hand maid at revelstone?

[wayfriend]

IMO it's not a good theory unless it explains the symbolism of Mahdoubt's eyes of different colors.

[kevinswatch]

You know, I really, really, hope that the Mahdoubt turns out to be no one special. That would be hilarious...hehe. Mean, but funny. Heh.-jay

[Aleksandr]

Something else to note here: it seems as if in former bindings of the Appointed the Elohim used their own power to perform the binding; but in Findail's case this was done by Linden using White Gold. Is it possible that meddling with Earthpower Incarnate with Wild Magic has damaged previous Bindings? Is this was enabled Kastenerssen to get free, and, if your speculation is correct here, freed the Elohim of the Colossus from imprisonment in the fallen monolith?

[I'm Murrin]

The Collossus' power was fading at the end of the first chrons, and wasn't the last of its strength used up in The Power That Preserves?

[Nerdanel]

This is an intriguing theory, but I don't think I'll buy it. Perhaps the most importantly, I'm convinced that the Mahdoubt habitually casts charm spells at everyone she meets. Without those charm spells, anyone who can see through Kevin's Dirt will see her as she really is and react with fear rather than reassurement. That doesn't fit with an Elohim. An Elohim would be able to change into any shape she wanted and not worry about scary auras as she was impenetrable to health sense.

I maintain that the Mahdoubt is a caesure. I think that works even better than a Demondim in disguise, my previous favorite.

If the Mahdoubt was a normal person she would be the least normal normal person ever.

[lucimay]

i think the Madoubt is something new. don't ax me what but i think she's something new altogether.

[kevinswatch]

I'm just curious, but has anyone compiled a running list yet of Mahdoubt guesses? I thought I remembered something like that, but I can't recall now.

Might be fun to make a list of all of the guesses, and maybe have a large, continuous running poll until SRD finally reveals the answer.-jay

[Relayer]

Something else to note here: it seems as if in former bindings of the Appointed the Elohim used their own power to perform the binding; but in Findail's case this was done by Linden using White Gold. Is it possible that meddling with Earthpower Incarnate with Wild Magic has damaged previous Bindings? Is this was enabled Kastenerssen to get free, and, if your speculation is correct here, freed the Elohim of the Colossus from imprisonment in the fallen monolith?

An interesting theory! And it may apply w/ Kastenessen, but not the Colossus... her appointment was broken before the events of the 2nd Chrons.

If the Mahdoubt was a normal person she would be the least normal normal person ever.

I swear I remember a GI response where SRD said "sorry, I'm amazed that you all are wracking your brains about the Mahdoubt, she's just a minor character that won't be important for long..." ... but I can no longer find it. I wonder if

a) I'm hallucinating. No comments please

b) He did say it, and then during the development of FR she "grew" into a more important character, at which point he had that reply pulled. He often talks about how he lets his characters develop as he goes along; maybe when she showed up he didn't really realize why at first. Did anyone save their older copies of the GI? (say from 8-10 months ago)

[Warmark]

I'm just curious, but has anyone compiled a running list yet of Mahdoubt guesses? I thought I remembered something like that, but I can't recall now.

Might be fun to make a list of all of the guesses, and maybe have a large, continuous running poll until SRD finally reveals the answer.-jay

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... bt+guesses

[Usivius]

wow, nice theory, Romeo. Now I'm torn as to which I like better!

[Romeo]

The Interdict provided by the Colossus had faded, I think, around the time of Berek. But it still had some power left in it at the end of The Power That Preserves. However, in the Sooth Tell, Covenant learns that the power faded entirely after the last real Forestal died. I forget the exact wording, but I remember that it made it sound like that's when it really failed entirely.

But remember that the Elohim are Earthpower incarnate. Perhaps the Elohim that was bound in the Colossus was expended or just faded away until there was not enough left to constitute an actual being. It will be interesting to see if that is one of the "loose strings" that he wants to tie up in the Last Chronicles.

However, if there is enough left of her (I think I remember Findail referring to that Elohim as "her" when he mentioned it before starting his tale of Kastenessen?), she might have been changed enough by her experiences to stay in the Land (where we know Earthpower runs closer to the surface). She wouldn't be ticked off at the Elohim like Kastenessen is, since it wasn't them who imprissoned her (the Forest itself did that). And the old Forests were gone. So she might have looked around to find another way to server the Land (as was her appointment ... sort of) and landed in Revelstone after the sunbane was removed.

All that said, I'm sure it's not the case - for the simple reason that I've *never* been able to second guess any of Steve's plot lines and twists. Never. Ever. So going with the odds, I think we'll have to just sit back and see how it all unfolds.

[wayfriend]

Righto. The Collossus was not unbound. The power that supported it faded away. If anything remained after that, it was around at the time of the second chronicles.

But my feelings say this isn't so. I think that when the colossus faded away, the Elohim that was bound faded away to. That's what bound means!

And one thing I learned recently about SRD's writing is that he doesn't believe in things being undone once done. Transformed, healed, overcome ... but never undone, as if it never happened. How do you hurt a man who has lost everything?/Give him back something broken.. That whole sentiment is based on the idea that getting something back is not the same as being like it was.

Let's remember that we don't even know what the breaking of the Durance really means. It may mean only mean that what it was imprisoning has been freed. It may mean that Kastenessen has become something different than he was. But I am sure it won't mean that what the Elohim did has not been undone.