When did you start disliking Covenant?

[lucimay]

i disliked him from the outset and gradually grew to like and understand him better as the story progressed.

i've got to admit tho, i LOVED this!!

Mhoram showed no sign of having heard. But a scowl passed like a spasm across Prothall's face, and Quaan stepped to the Unbeliever's side at once, gripped his elbow, whispered into his ear, "If you speak again, I will break your arm."

if you speak again i will break your arm. i friggin loved that!!

Covenant's bastardlyness made for some great moments!

[drew]

That's my favorite line from LFB!!!

[Mhorram's Revenge]

I was ok with him til he raped Lena. The aftermath of the battle was pretty much his worst point. From there redemption was going to require something special, but I guess saving the world falls within that category. I started to like him when he went to the bar at the start of TIW with the truckie. His allowing Elena to commit her disaster didn't endear me to him either.

I dislike his actions, but I feel the writing let me understand him, and hence I enjoy his story. Stories where the protagonist starts with everything he needs to succeed aren't that interesting.

(Off-topic, but related to above point - that was one change in the LOTR movies I didn't mind compared to the books - Jackson made more of an effort to illustrate Aragorn's growth into his role than appeared in the text, in my opinion).

[The Other Ur-Lord]

Initially I didn't like him because he didn't do anything except whine and refuse to help, but that was until I thought about it more.

His inaction is the only thing that has preserved him and let him score any victories against Lord Foul. Mhoram wasn't kidding when he told TC he was the white gold. Covenant exists in a unique position. The power he has is so overwhelming and dangerous that if he was as active as the Lords, for instance, he'd tear the universe apart, which is exactly what Foul wants. So, the inaction I originally faulted him for is, in fact, the only way he could ever be effective. You can't use power to defeat the Despiser, I think that's been shown over and over again, that's why Covenant gave up the ring in WGW.

[Dawngreeter]

The aftermath of the battle was pretty much his worst point.

I with you there, although at the end of LFB his reluctance to help Prothall call down the Fire Lions and save everyone because of his "bargain" really burned me. Of course he eventually did and to boot, called out the Ranyhyn.

TC, pre-Land pre-leper
Afraid of horses
Afraid of heights
he's already missing some manly traits

To TC's credit, I would have gone totally bonkers when I got yanked back to the real world, where he for the most part got back on track.

[Angoid]

This is really interesting because I've just been away for 2 weeks and started reading the entire First Chronicles again. I'm currently halfway through TIW.

I can see how Covenant came from a world where he had got so used to rejection that rejection was easier to handle than acceptance. He suddenly found himself in a world that he didn't believe in, where the people not only accepted him but regarded him as a hero come back from the past. All this in addition to the partial healing of his leprosy - something impossible.

Because of all this, I could tolerate him for most (if not all) of LFB but there are a number of points where I'm thinking, "Ouch!! Have a heart!!"

For instance, when Variol and Tamarantha were dead and he said, "You mean to say that I .... we ... for a couple of corpses?" when Mhoram was clearly in shock over his parents and TC seemed totally insensitive to this. Yet Mhoram contiued to be his friend. No wonder Quaan wanted to break his arm.

He also shows total disrespect for the Ranyhyn as well; he calls them at a time when they should not be called (thus angering the Ramen), refuses to ride one (he'd already made his mind up on that one), but he did kind of try to redeem himself when he required one to visit Lena every year, knowing that she had always wanted to ride one. But I really hate the way TC treats Winhome Gay - just a little girl whom he had no reason to dislike or treat disrespectfully.

I think for me I don't really get to dislike him until TIW where he seems more and more sarcastic, unappreciative, and deliberately unhelpful.

[matrixman]

I never really liked Covenant until he saved the day at the end of TPTP/

I thought he was an arrogant selfish prick with a Poor-Me syndrome.

Haha, that sounds exactly like how I would've described Hile Troy in my prior Troy-bashing days - as an arrogant selfish prick with a "watch me" syndrome.

I never actually disliked Covenant. The story was told from his PoV, and as such you see his motivations, his thought patterns, and you get to glimpse at least some of why he behaves the way he does.

Yes, and I would say the same of Linden Avery.

There are certainly moments where I thought Covenant looked pathetic...and what he did to Lena was way beyond that...but I never fundamentally disliked Covenant: he (just like Linden) was a misfit, an outsider, and I could relate to that.

Honestly, I don't think Donaldson wrote TC to be liked in the beginning. His charactor is written to provoke emotions and he's supposed to be an ass so that you feel conflicted about him as TC feels conflicted in the story. If you like him in the beginning then it lessens his journey of redemption and reformation.

Thing is, I'd say that I more or less liked Covenant right from the beginning. He elicited my immediate sympathy when on the very first pages of LFB, Donaldson described the hostility of the townspeople toward him. Like Murrin said in his earlier post, Donaldson made me understand clearly what Covenant was about, and why he is the person he is.

[Cameraman Jenn]

Let me be perfectly clear, understanding someone, pitying someone, liking someone are all different things entirely. I understand what Covenant is going through and I understand what fuels his reactions, it doesn't make me like him. Pity him, yes to an extent but I don't like him for a long while in the first chrons.

[CovenantJr]

I felt a bit of pity for TC for the first couple of pages or so, but I quickly grew to dislike him. I hated him more and more, until the hate hit a plateau somewhere in TIW and continued at that level until... Halfway through TPTP, I suddenly realised I had somehow grown to like and, crucially, respect him. It quite caught me by surprise.

[MsMary]

I really dissliked Covenant when Triock had first accosted him...and Atiaran was all upset, and he was sjust standing there bragging about how he could feel his cut fingers.

I never read that as bragging. I read it as Covenant trying to understand how he could feel his cut fingers when he knew he shouldn't be able to because of his leprosy.

[MsMary]

I never disliked Covenant either. Linden, on the other hand.....

Heh. I'm right there with you.

[CovenantJr]

I never disliked Covenant either. Linden, on the other hand.....

Heh. I'm right there with you.

Haha, me too. I started off indifferent to Linden, then rapidly began to dislike her, until I reached a point where I loathed her as much I ever loathed Covenant.

The difference between my loathing for TC and my loathing for Linden is TC eventually won me over, while Linden didn't. And I held (hold) Linden in contempt; I never held Covenant in contempt, even when I hated him.

[Cagliostro]

I liked Covenant a lot when I first read through it. And maybe the second time too. Didn't always agree with him, but....

I think the last time which was a few years ago was when I thought he was a jerk in reading through it.

I have something of a love/hate thing for Linden. I think her parents stories were some of the most powerful things in the series, but on a daily basis, she doesn't always give the emotional ties that many of the other characters do. To put it nicely.

[matrixman]

Hey, nice to see you around, Cagliostro.

Ok, maybe this is stating the obvious, but people here are talking about their dislike of Covenant based on how he treated the people of the Land, correct?

Nevertheless, from his POV, I could see how Covenant would regard the Land's "hospitality' as a sick joke purely designed to mock him.

Some people read the books, look at Covenant, and imagine how much better they'd do in his place. Some (like me) look at Covenant and imagine how much worse they'd do in his place. Bad behavior? Ungratefulness? Pain-in-the-butt SOB? Take a look around you: Your co-workers, the general public, or online forums (yes, including KW). It doesn't take much for a person to act like a jerk, whether in real life or virtual reality - and that's without the handicap of being a hardened pariah of society. I look at Covenant, then I see myself in the mirror, and I resemble him - emotionally if not physically - more than I probably want to admit. So I can't hate Covenant, because then that would be self-hate...

[Dawngreeter]

Some people read the books, look at Covenant, and imagine how much better they'd do in his place. Some (like me) look at Covenant and imagine how much worse they'd do in his place.

That's probably what it comes down to, how the reader fits himself into the story. I think of the fact that some poor sucker just gets tanked into another incredible land really taps into, at least myself, the euphoria of "wow, what would I do" type thinking. They are hit with a character who does not do at all what they would. There are hardly any reflections of TC in me so I have always felt that I could have done much better than him in the LFB. Of course, my approach would have collapsed the Arch of Time.

[danlo]

I identified with TC right away--being an angry loner at 19 in '76. But he did drive me nuts pissing around his rooms with Bannor for what seemed like 6 chapters .

[matrixman]

More rambling thoughts:

I suspect that, if anything, I would have disliked the pre-leprosy Thomas Covenant rather than the bitter man we know. Before everything in his life hit the fan, he was a best-selling author of trash who led a comfortable life with an adoring wife. Nothing inherently dislikeable about that, I suppose, except for the implied smugness of his station in life. Like the intro chapter of LFB says, Covenant used to be the kind of writer that was the darling of gossipy book clubs. Hello, Oprah.

But in his role as pariah, Covenant turns out to be the ultimate anti-authoritarian figure, and I'm sure that's one of the reasons why he has my sympathy. We like to cheer for the Everyman/woman, but Covenant isn't even that - he's the anti-Everyman as well. Everyman is the ordinary joe who leads an ordinary life in the community. But TC has been cut off from community. The simple fact of his disease has changed all the parameters of his once "ordinary" life.

So I guess that's why I just don't get it when readers look at Covenant and get mad at him for not jumping at the chance to fight Foul or save the Land. Sure, maybe if it was you or me, we'd be eager to kick butt on behalf of the Land. But you or I didn't have our lives turned upside down before going to the Land. Let me ask: if you were emotionally messed up, how then do you think you would have fared in the Land? Never mind leprosy, just think of any other horrible disease that might scar you physically and mentally. Or what if you had just lost your whole family in some natural catastrophe? Would you then still have enough left in you to deal with being placed in an impossible situation?

I just think of the worst thing that could afflict me, and that's where I get my empathy for TC.

[Peven]

i guess i was conditioned to like the protagonist by the time i read the TC books and so i kept trying to like Covenant, though to my frustration he just kept pissing me off throughout LFB. still, i kept looking for something, anything i could latch on to and when he finally started showing signs of taking the Land seriously, that it was real, that he cared about what happened to it, i ended up liking him even more than if he had started out as a likeable character. by the time i finished TIW i was fully in his corner.

i have always told people the reason why SRD is my favorite modern author is that he creates such 3 dimensional characters, characters that draw you in to the story and make you really feel, whether it is sympathy or admiration or disdain or frustration.

[SothuTheUnfetterdOne.]

i have always told people the reason why SRD is my favorite modern author is that he creates such 3 dimensional characters, characters that draw you in to the story and make you really feel, whether it is sympathy or admiration or disdain or frustration.



YES Peven hit the nail right in the head!

[drew]

I liked Cov in the real world...It was more the Land Covenant that made me demand that he had better start redeeming himself.; and that's what made me want to read and read and read

I did feel very sorry for Covenant at the beginning of TIW; hitchiking to the Door; getting all confussed from Suzie; and then that dirty SOB Lytton getting after him.