It never really bothered me either. TC raping Lena never really 'felt' like rape to me... the way SRD writes it, I took it as a man who was totally overwhelmed by his experience of the Land, of feeling again, of not being impotent, of already fighting to deal with the paradox of leprosy/Land. Of experiencing the 'wild white fire' ... And so his actions didn't feel abusive to me. It'll be interesting when I reread it.
Cue Angus for contrast... if I had never read TCTC, I'm sure I wouldn't have made it thru the Real Story. But seeing the repeated theme, I was willing to keep going. Angus at that point is nothing but malevolent and abusive, those scenes are disgusting. We don't have enough backstory to understand him. (We have more insight into TC's life by then) On the other hand, we have no expectation at that point that Angus is supposed to be a hero or star of the series. They're not called "The Chronicles of Angus Themopyle" so SRD allows us to hate Angus, just like a rapist in any other book/movie.
Peoples reactions to Covenant
Moderators: kevinswatch, Orlion
Obviously the rape was incredibly central to the plot - the consequences don't seem to ever end. I expect they'll come back to haunt Covenant even more in the last three books 
But for me, the rape was the biggest problem in getting "into" the books. Not that I didn't manage to read LFB all on the first attempt, it just gave me a sense of uneasiness that wasn't dissipated until Covenant started feeling the guilt. I can imagine a lot of people giving up quite early on.
On another line, several work colleagues gave responses along the lines of "it's really depressing", and "it's just a long whiny monologue about the character feeling sorry for himself" ...
But for me, the rape was the biggest problem in getting "into" the books. Not that I didn't manage to read LFB all on the first attempt, it just gave me a sense of uneasiness that wasn't dissipated until Covenant started feeling the guilt. I can imagine a lot of people giving up quite early on.
On another line, several work colleagues gave responses along the lines of "it's really depressing", and "it's just a long whiny monologue about the character feeling sorry for himself" ...
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IrrationalSanity
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Nerdanel,
I agree that Ender's Game and the Speaker series are very different. As for the Inside-Out travel, well don't forget Xenocide is not the last book - Children of the Mind is, and it is better.
The Shadow series, which is set in the same timeline as the original Ender, is very good, and has nothing to do with the Speaker books.
I agree that Ender's Game and the Speaker series are very different. As for the Inside-Out travel, well don't forget Xenocide is not the last book - Children of the Mind is, and it is better.
The Shadow series, which is set in the same timeline as the original Ender, is very good, and has nothing to do with the Speaker books.
- Woody -
Linden Lover and proud of it...
But I love my wife more!
"Desecration requires no knowledge. It comes freely to any willing hand." - Amok
Linden Lover and proud of it...
But I love my wife more!
"Desecration requires no knowledge. It comes freely to any willing hand." - Amok
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drew
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The rape confused me the first time I read the book. I though he had tried and failed.
I had to reread those paragraphs until I realized that he was successful.
But it made me want to read on; not put it away...Hell it was only a few chapters in, and we had just heard Lord Foul tell him that he was going to be the cause for the destruction of the land.
I didn't know if Cov was even going to be the hero yet. Although throught most of LFB he defanlty wasn't the hero; the hero's were Mhoram and Foamfollwer, and possibly Bannor and Quaan.
I had to reread those paragraphs until I realized that he was successful.
But it made me want to read on; not put it away...Hell it was only a few chapters in, and we had just heard Lord Foul tell him that he was going to be the cause for the destruction of the land.
I didn't know if Cov was even going to be the hero yet. Although throught most of LFB he defanlty wasn't the hero; the hero's were Mhoram and Foamfollwer, and possibly Bannor and Quaan.
I thought you were a ripe grape
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
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High Lord Tolkien
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Yeah, that was probably the mildest written sexual assualt I've ever read.
If you skipped a paragraph you would have missed the whole thing.
It didn't influence me one bit when I started reading when I was a teenager.
I just couldn't wait to get to the part that was illustrated on the cover.
I had the bridge under Mt Thunder cover.
If you skipped a paragraph you would have missed the whole thing.
It didn't influence me one bit when I started reading when I was a teenager.
I just couldn't wait to get to the part that was illustrated on the cover.
I had the bridge under Mt Thunder cover.
https://thoolah.blogspot.com/
[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
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Fist and Faith
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My gf is giving LFB another try. She only got to maybe the third chapter last time. She's not much into fantasy, though, so she stopped. But she's trying again anyway. She's asleep, and the book is on the floor next to the bed. I picked it up to see where she left off, and she's on the second to last page of Lena! 
If she only knew what's going to happen on the next page! At least I assume she's on the next to last page, because I can't imagine she would have gone to sleep without saying something if she had read it.
If she only knew what's going to happen on the next page! At least I assume she's on the next to last page, because I can't imagine she would have gone to sleep without saying something if she had read it.All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
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stonemaybe
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Zandorph
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Thomas Covenant.
Hey i just got the first chronicles and I am roughly halfway through the second. However, something has been annoying me throughout the novels and I felt I might have missed something. So in short, how old is Thomas Covenant? I can't remember any references to age, he could be anywhere between 20 and 70 for all i know.
The first high profile casualty of the Avian Flu passed away this weekend at his nest at 123 Sesame Street, surrounded by friends and family. Big Bird was 37.
i never cosidered putting the book down.
when a book can invoke emotions that are akin to hate or loathing then you are witness to a great storyteller and a great story(although the word story doesnt seem to do the chrons justice). if you believe that a person can be defined by a single incident, however damning, amid the entire spectrum of human existence then you dont deserve the chronicles or TC.
when a book can invoke emotions that are akin to hate or loathing then you are witness to a great storyteller and a great story(although the word story doesnt seem to do the chrons justice). if you believe that a person can be defined by a single incident, however damning, amid the entire spectrum of human existence then you dont deserve the chronicles or TC.
It'd take you a long time to blow up or shoot all the sheep in this country, but one diseased banana...could kill 'em all.
I didn't even know sheep ate bananas.
I didn't even know sheep ate bananas.
Ugh!! Thank god I didn't judge LFB by its cover. What the hell is up with the gypsy with the cheesy mustache?? And why are those archers running around shirtless? As a fantasy/sci-fi fan I am outraged by the comical displays known as fantasy cover art.High Lord Tolkien wrote: I just couldn't wait to get to the part that was illustrated on the cover.
I had the bridge under Mt Thunder cover.
Lucky you. Several of my friends simply will not give the chronicles a try because they don't like mixing fantasy and real world settings. One friend can't get over the possibility of the Land being a dream world of the real world characters. Some people like everything cut and dry I guess.Empusae wrote: I have had the good fortune to have a few friends who I have been able to show the joys of TC. Add to that my father is a long time fan.
Proverbs for Paranoids #3.
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
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CovenantJr
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Revived! For this purpose:
I was just chatting on MSN to an amateur writer acquaintance, who was complaining about what he calls "thesaurus rape". He then gave an imaginary example, which just sounded to me like a parody of SRD. I queried this, and the following is what resulted:
We had to agree to differ, but...I just don't understand how anyone can not be touched, or at least engrossed, by the Chronicles.
I was just chatting on MSN to an amateur writer acquaintance, who was complaining about what he calls "thesaurus rape". He then gave an imaginary example, which just sounded to me like a parody of SRD. I queried this, and the following is what resulted:
Christopher says:
I read the first six Covenant books. No more. Ever.
Christopher says:
(The things I wll do to please a woman.)
Christopher says:
I can take X amount of existential angst in a single lifetime.
We had to agree to differ, but...I just don't understand how anyone can not be touched, or at least engrossed, by the Chronicles.
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IrrationalSanity
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IrrationalSanity
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The problem is the thesaurus wouldn't ask for rape. It would ask for
abduction, abuse, bang, criminal attack, criminal ravishment, defilement, defloration, deflowering, depredation, desecration, despoilment, despoliation, devirgination, forcible violation, maltreatment, molestation, outrage, perversion, pillage, plunder, plundering, rapine, ravishment, sack, seduction, sexual assault, spoliation, statutory offense, or violation.
abduction, abuse, bang, criminal attack, criminal ravishment, defilement, defloration, deflowering, depredation, desecration, despoilment, despoliation, devirgination, forcible violation, maltreatment, molestation, outrage, perversion, pillage, plunder, plundering, rapine, ravishment, sack, seduction, sexual assault, spoliation, statutory offense, or violation.
- Woody -
Linden Lover and proud of it...
But I love my wife more!
"Desecration requires no knowledge. It comes freely to any willing hand." - Amok
Linden Lover and proud of it...
But I love my wife more!
"Desecration requires no knowledge. It comes freely to any willing hand." - Amok
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Dawngreeter
- <i>Elohim</i>
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I can buy that. I like my fantasy. I like my sci-fi. But DO NOT mix the two.Tulizar wrote:Lucky you. Several of my friends simply will not give the chronicles a try because they don't like mixing fantasy and real world settings. One friend can't get over the possibility of the Land being a dream world of the real world characters. Some people like everything cut and dry I guess.
It was the fetid halitus of the most diseased mortality condensed to its essence and elevated to the transcendence of prophecy, promise, suzerain truth—the definitive commandment of darkness.