Runes, Part 2 Chapter 8 - "Contrive their salvation"

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Runes, Part 2 Chapter 8 - "Contrive their salvation"

Post by srtrout »

“When had she been certain of anything besides her loves?

The chapter begins as Linden has renewed her use of “the only power which had ever truly belonged to her”, the Staff of Law. The wanyhim have been healed to their astonishment. They can only express their thanks through “raw-edged sounds”, but their appreciation is overt.

Linden’s relationship with Stave has progressed to the point that he gives her “grave thanks”, high praise given his mistrust of her . Stave, a Master of the Land who mistrusts and forbids the use of Earthpower, inexplicably approves of this blatant use of Earthpower.

As with other times when Linden or Covenant have exerted the powers available to them, that use of power has exhausted Linden. Thus we find her and her comrades in one of the few times of peace found in the Chronicles; the waynhim tend to them and feed them.

Her comrades have been healed or sustained; as they rest they demonstrate their varying natures:
Stave remained standing as if to do the Demondim-spawn honor. And Esmer wandered aimlessly around the chamber, looking vaguely rueful, troubled by sorrow he did not explain. But Marhtiir also sat on one of the ledges, studying the Wanyhim as though he meant to study every detail so that he would be able to tell his a people a tale worthy of his fierce ambitions
.

Although Linden has essentially communed with the Staff, and used it to good results, she has not actually seen or held it. She now is given the staff by one of the Wanyhim, and we review its appearance and nature. She is reminded of its history; the iron ends which came from the original staff; the connection to the One Tree; Vain and Findail; thus she walks through much of the Second Trilogy.

Her connection with the Staff is warm and intimate; it brings to her mind all in the Land that is good:
“She was filled with memories of Andelain...and aliantha...of Gilden trees , all vibrant with Earthpower.
She felt she was remembering the Land as it had once existed in the mind of its Creator”
And then a second reunion. Anele has failed as guardian of the Staff. Decades have passed since he was in the presence of the Staff; decades full of misery, recrimination, and grief. How will he react?

In the stone of the Wayhim rhysh, Anele is as sane as he can be. And his attitude is one of continued grief and regret.
"I am unworthy of such astonishment . The day has not yet come when I can be whole”
Thus the time of healing and peace is incomplete; Anele cannot yet be healed by the Staff, and we will soon see that other threats remain as well.

Linden rests briefly, comforted by vitrim. She is confronted by her irrascible nemesis Esmer; never content with her having a moment’s rest he needs to know her intention; he urges her to leave the time she is in to avoid any damage to the integrity of time.

As Esmer leaves, Linden realizes a consequence of his presence; she recognizes that his presence impedes her ability to access the power of her white gold ring. Although Esmer does assist her at times, with each time he is compelled also to hurt someone else; some strange need exists for balance between good and evil in his intentions.

The Wanyhim are fated to bear the ill consequences of Esmer’s presence;
“They know their plight, yet they do not flinch from it”. Linden must formulate a plan to return to her time in the land with her companions, but also wants to save the Waynhim from this unnamed but doubtlessly dark fate.

She cannot be sure her plan will work; she cannot be sure she will not damage the Land, kill her comrades, or weaken the Arch of Time:
“When had she been certain of anything besides her loves?”
Rather than sleep now, Linden rests, and reflects on the history of the Land. Under the tyranny of the Masters, stonedowner Liand has had little opportunity to learn of the history of the Land, and Linden tells him many stories of the Land.

Although she speaks of magic and heroes, she ultimately expressed her conclusion about who really matters; the ordinary people of the Land that work, love, and fight for what they believe in:
“I’m more ordinary than you think”
“ If there’s anyone here who deserves to inhabit a realm of antiquity and grandeur, it’s you (Liand). And Marthiir. Bhapi. Pahni."
... You decided to risk your entire lives for the simple reason that you consider it worth doing”
Now the storm clouds gather. The Ramen tell Linden of the murky doings of Esmer, as he attempted to draw away the Ranyhyn. At first the gathering storm is distant and difficult to sense, but with time Linden can sense it nearing. Birds are silent; horses whinny; all have an awareness of fear. Stave articulates a great evil, but the evil remains unnamed.

Flashes of green are seen in the distance. Linden has memories of the implication of that color; the Illearth Stone, thought to be destroyed long ago.

Linden cannot see how it is possible, but the power and the malevolence of the Illearth Stone is once again being wielded by servants of Lord Foul. These enemies slowly become perceptible; similar to the army of the Illearth War, they are undead, animated corpses, lead by Demonidim. The Wayhim and urviles mount an attack, but their efforts can do little more than momentarily stave off the horrible approach of assemblage of evil. The Ramen ride into battle as well.

Linden is faced once again with the consequences of her actions; she has defied time with the help of Esmer, and in doing so has awakened old evils; in doing so she has brought Esmer’s harm upon the faithful Wanyhim and urviles.

She thus becomes determined to use the power she has to fight back against the Demonidim and to redeem those who have redeemed her. The Staff of Law cannot counter this violence. She sets it aside under Liand’s care.

White Gold is the only force with potency sufficient to address her needs. Free of Esmer’s presence, she can easily locate the “door” within herself where she can unleash the argency she needs. Silver flame arises and creates a caesure equal to her demands.

Yet again Linden plunges herself, and her loved ones, into a destiny filled with peril and uncertainty; she has no other choice to save them and save the Land. She sends the caesure to swallow up the demondim’s horde, and then sweeps into the rift of time herself along with her friends and the Ranyhyn.
“She plunged into the caesure as if it were a lake of nightmares. At that moment, she had no reason to believe that she had not brought death to all that she held dear”.
This is a big chapter. Much of it is a peaceful interlude between the emotion of finding the Staff of Law and the chaos of the approach of Lord Foul’s army. As in several places in the Chronicles, Donaldson uses a time of relative quietude to let a character (Linden) review some history, both for the benefit of the other characters and for his readers.

Donaldson also expresses several of the “ethics” that are repeated throughout the Chronicles:

Simple, ordinary people are the true heroes

Actions taken with good intent may bring evil consequences

Evils of the past are never totally defeated

What is important is what we do for those we love


It is interesting to consider how Donaldson’s life and writing has brought him to these beliefs. We will undoubtedly learn more as future volumes are published!



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Post by Tulizar »

Nice dissection Srtrout!



I was touched by Anele's determination not to hold the staff. His mental instability and self loathing makes him inaccessable to anyone, including the one woman who is most able to heal him. Linden realizes this and it saddens her.
"Look at him," she told Liand. "He's choosing to be this way." His madness, like his blindness, was necessary to him still. "If I try to heal him, he'll fight me. And maybe he's right. He certainly has the right."



I like how Liand's character has grown.
After a moment, Liand answered sadly, "I see what you see, though it baffles me. Perhaps he must determine the time and place of his healing." Then the Stonedowner asked in a tone of pleading, "What does he desire, if not the Staff which he lost?"
His response to Linden is both intuitive and wise, yet uncertain. He's no longer the rebellious Stonedowner simply looking for an adventure. Instead he's developed into a man who offers his thoughtful speculation in one breath, then reveals his ignorance--his willingness to learn--in the next. Linden responds that Anele himself has told them that he is unworthy. He needs to believe in himself before he can be healed.



I'm not sure if it's been discussed before, or if I missed it in the book, but I wonder if Anele's guilt and his disdain for losing the staff reminds Linden of TC? Both men seem to have this thing for carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders.

This is one of those chapters when Linden both annoys me and pleases me. It bugs me that she takes so damn long to make a decision. She knows Esmer is up to something, yet she hesitates before summoning a caesure to escape. And she should know that when Esmer does something to hinder her, it is some seriously bad news. In this case the bad news is a horde of demondim.
To me there's no doubt about what should have been done from the start--summon a caesure and take everyone back, including the Waynhim. At this point I wouldn't worry about disrupting time. She already went back several thousand years to obtain the Staff, why worry about taking the Waynhim back with you? Will it really make that much of a difference?
The part that really pleased me was when Linden finally summonded the caesure, it was obvious that she intended to take the demondim horde back with her. If there was any question about violating the Arch of Time, hopefully this would resolve it by avoiding any major confrontation that shouldn't have occurred thousands of years ago.
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Great dissection, srtrout!
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Post by Usivius »

yes, excellent srtrout...
Linden’s relationship with Stave has progressed to the point that he gives her “grave thanks”, high praise given his mistrust of her . Stave, a Master of the Land who mistrusts and forbids the use of Earthpower, inexplicably approves of this blatant use of Earthpower.
I love that. The way people around Linden slowly bend to follow her because of her love and compassion of the Land, her healing touch and the potential (and danger) she represents (much like TC).
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Tulizar wrote:
It bugs me that she takes so damn long to make a decision. She knows Esmer is up to something, yet she hesitates before summoning a caesure to escape. And she should know that when Esmer does something to hinder her, it is some seriously bad news. In this case the bad news is a horde of demondim.
Perhaps she wanted to see what he was going to do. What if it was something that she needed to confront directly to keep time from being altered? I would say she needed to know what the threat was to make a good rational decision.
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Post by Tulizar »

SoulBiter wrote:
Tulizar wrote:
It bugs me that she takes so damn long to make a decision. She knows Esmer is up to something, yet she hesitates before summoning a caesure to escape. And she should know that when Esmer does something to hinder her, it is some seriously bad news. In this case the bad news is a horde of demondim.
Perhaps she wanted to see what he was going to do. What if it was something that she needed to confront directly to keep time from being altered? I would say she needed to know what the threat was to make a good rational decision.
In the end I have to agree. Linden had many things to consider before escaping--not only the safety of her friends and the disruption of the AOT, but whether or not she should bring the Waynhim back to the present with her. On top of this she had to deal with Esmer.
Although Linden sometimes frustrates me with her inaction, ultimately she seems to make the right decisions. Even though I wanted Linden to escape before Esmer revealed his plan, I was thrilled that she acted without hesitation when she formulated a plan of escape.
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Post by wayfriend »

Nice dissection, strtout.
strtout wrote:She now is given the staff by one of the Wanyhim, and we review its appearance and nature. She is reminded of its history; the iron ends which came from the original staff; the connection to the One Tree; Vain and Findail; thus she walks through much of the Second Trilogy.
I was very disappointed by the New Staff. One of the things I looked forward to in Runes was the New Staff speaking or being sentient or something like that; I was expecting it to be "alive" somehow. Instead, it seems very much the same as the Old Staff. Inert.
strtout wrote:The Ramen tell Linden of the murky doings of Esmer, as he attempted to draw away the Ranyhyn.
Hmm... I'm thinking, Esmer hopes to spare the Ranyhyn from what is coming. Is this no more suspicious than that?

Because I cannot help thinking, if Linden doesn't have any Ranyhyn, she cannot travel through time with a ceasure.
strtout wrote:Linden cannot see how it is possible, but the power and the malevolence of the Illearth Stone is once again being wielded by servants of Lord Foul. These enemies slowly become perceptible; similar to the army of the Illearth War, they are undead, animated corpses, lead by Demonidim.
One of the most dramatic moments in the book. The flashes and the rumbles, growing closer, while Stave slowly reveals what he knows. (Similar to the attack of the kresh, in a way.)
"It should not be so," said the Master. "Yet it is. In this the recall of the Haruchai is sure."

Again emerald beat in the air like the throbbing of a diseased heart. It had come a long way up the hillside. A spatter of blackness answered it, and fell still. The Ranyhyn stamped and whickered anxiously.

"We have shared it mind to mind across the millennia," Stave continued, "undiminished and unconfused."

The vitriol which the ur-viles wield for destruction pulsed in their hearts.

"At first I was reluctant to name what I perceive. It offends Time and all Law. Yet now I am certain."

Abruptly he stopped.

Clad in cerements and rot, their touch was fire.

"Speak the name, Bloodguard," Mahrtiir put in harshly. "Your knowledge is needed."

Bursts of green evil echoed through the night, accumulating like summer lightning. Linden thought she heard the sound of running; desperate haste. Small swirls of blackness coalesced along the slope below her, still some distance from the Waynhim.

The ur-viles had been routed.

As did the Viles, they persisted outside or beyond life and death. As do the ur-viles, they had forms which could be touched and harmed.

"They are Demondim," Stave answered. If he felt either fear or uncertainty, he did not show it. "Esmer has brought them to this time."
BTW - notice that Stave says that the Haruchai "shared it mind to mind across the millennia" ... so they DO pass on memories this way!!!

After all that drama -- massive disappointment. How can a horde of Demondim with an Illearth Stone be held off by some tired ur-viles and Waynhim? Why were not these Demondim capable of obliterating them in an instant?

Well... I already wrote a lot about that here: Reading Runes: There’s No Sex in Your Violence. If you haven't read that, I'd like to share it with you.
strtout wrote:Free of Esmer’s presence, she can easily locate the “door” within herself where she can unleash the argency she needs. Silver flame arises and creates a caesure equal to her demands.
Too fast, strtout! Too fast!

First of all, my theory finally ran out of luck. Linden found the wild magic without first thinking about Jeremiah. In fact, there's not much sign of any passion at all as she searches for the "door".

But, ironically, we are left with this clue: At times the ring's argence had answered her urgent impulses more naturally, more readily, than her deliberate choices. Which is almost the same thing that I had been saying. Sort of.

And then, I absolutely love this line.
With that delicate instrument, she probed the necessary structure of time.
Linden draws into herself, and with the wild magic, she begins to focus her power and her senses so keenly that she would be able to detect the ligatures which connected one instant to the next.

Wow.

C'mon. Say wow.
strtout wrote:Donaldson also expresses several of the “ethics” that are repeated throughout the Chronicles
Nicely noticed, strtout! Kudos!
Tulizar wrote:She knows Esmer is up to something, yet she hesitates before summoning a caesure to escape.
The explanation is in the text. Liand brings it up.
"If we hasten to depart, the harm which Esmer has wrought will fall upon the Waynhim alone. Without our aid, it may be that they will be destroyed."

"You are a Master of the Land. Do you deem the Waynhim unworthy of our concern?"
She doesn't know the nature of the threat. At this time, she isn't planning to take the Waynhim with her; she thinks if she leaves too soon, the Waynhim will be in trouble.
"And until we are sure, I'm not leaving. The Waynhim have already suffered enough. I won't leave them until I know they aren't going to be wiped out."
The Waynhim might be exterminated, or give such a battle that would be "a violation of the Land's history".

So wise choice, I say.
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Post by Tulizar »

Wayfriend wrote:
Tulizar wrote:She knows Esmer is up to something, yet she hesitates before summoning a caesure to escape.
The explanation is in the text. Liand brings it up.
"If we hasten to depart, the harm which Esmer has wrought will fall upon the Waynhim alone. Without our aid, it may be that they will be destroyed."

"You are a Master of the Land. Do you deem the Waynhim unworthy of our concern?"
She doesn't know the nature of the threat. At this time, she isn't planning to take the Waynhim with her; she thinks if she leaves too soon, the Waynhim will be in trouble.
"And until we are sure, I'm not leaving. The Waynhim have already suffered enough. I won't leave them until I know they aren't going to be wiped out."
The Waynhim might be exterminated, or give such a battle that would be "a violation of the Land's history".

So wise choice, I say.
Man, I can't believe I missed Liand's astute observation. That makes me like him even more!
And again, I agree that Linden made a prudent decision by waiting to depart. As it turns out she avoided (keeping my fingers crossed) any disruption of the Land's history by bringing the battle against the Demondim to the present. By transporting both sides to the present, not only did Linden save the Waynhim from an untimely extermination, she prevented the Demondim from wreaking havoc upon other unsuspecting victims in the past.
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:goodpost: to all.
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Post by Relayer »

SoulBiter wrote:Perhaps she wanted to see what he was going to do. What if it was something that she needed to confront directly to keep time from being altered? I would say she needed to know what the threat was to make a good rational decision.
Wayfriend makes a good point here, as explained by Liand. Also, if she hadn't waited, the Demondim would have been left in the past, and that certainly would've altered the history of the Land (though Linden didn't know that at the time, it was clearly part of her thought process about whatever was going to happen).
Wayfriend wrote:After all that drama -- massive disappointment. How can a horde of Demondim with an Illearth Stone be held off by some tired ur-viles and Waynhim? Why were not these Demondim capable of obliterating them in an instant?
I wouldn't say they were held off. They were barely slowed by the attacks. However, the Lore of the ur-viles and Waynhim is rather potent, and being Demondim-spawn, they may know a few tricks in dealing w/ their "parents."
srtrout wrote:Stave, a Master of the Land who mistrusts and forbids the use of Earthpower, inexplicably approves of this blatant use of Earthpower.
Yes, I see this as another of the key moments that shapes Stave.

A few other points:
In her explanations of how she is just an ordinary person (echoes of her plea to Stave at the horserite), she continues to view Covenant as a hero, worthy of legendary status, bla bla bla. But TC himself sees that he's just an ordinary guy stuck in some extraordinary circumstances. She's been doing this for the whole of Runes, putting him on a pedestal... I expect this to become important in some way. Linden, you stand as equal to the heroes of the Land. Be the Chosen.


I suspect that Esmer knows what Linden will do when confronted w/ the Demondim. He would realize that she won't try to fight them in the past, and can't just let them stay there because either of those would likely alter Time. So if he knows that she's going to bring them back to the present, what is his true intent?
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Post by wayfriend »

Exactly, Relayer. I feel strongly that Esmer is maneuvering Linden somewhere, for reasons no one can know as yet.

Esmer left her quite intentionally so that she could use the ring. And, because he brought the Demondim against her in the past, by his own designs, he knows she can't use wild magic to simply anhilate the Demondim. He knows, pretty much, that she will summon a ceasure with it. And he would know what she would do, take the Wanyhim and Demondim with her, she has no other choices.

The whole thing is rigged. But to what end?
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Post by kastenessen »

Wayfriend wrote:Exactly, Relayer. I feel strongly that Esmer is maneuvering Linden somewhere, for reasons no one can know as yet.

Esmer left her quite intentionally so that she could use the ring. And, because he brought the Demondim against her in the past, by his own designs, he knows she can't use wild magic to simply anhilate the Demondim. He knows, pretty much, that she will summon a ceasure with it. And he would know what she would do, take the Wanyhim and Demondim with her, she has no other choices.

The whole thing is rigged. But to what end?

And if Esmers purpose was to to bring Demondim to the future he could have done so directly, without having them brought halfway and let Linden bring them the rest of the way...and he could have done it ages ago, in fact, if his ability to travel through time is valid he can pretty much do anything with all his powers...unless...transporting the Demondim is only possible within the proximity of the white gold, that he is able to tap into it somehow... could explain why Linden Wasn't able to reach for it when he was present...no Esmers intentions is well hidden I believe...

Great posting everybody and a great dissection srtrout...
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Post by wayfriend »

kastenessen wrote:And if Esmers purpose was to to bring Demondim to the future he could have done so directly, without having them brought halfway and let Linden bring them the rest of the way...
Indeed. So whatever he is plotting, it is not merely about some Demondim in the "present".

Did Linden do anything that, if there were no Demondim, she would not have done?

I recall this one line: At times the ring's argence had answered her urgent impulses more naturally, more readily, than her deliberate choices.

Did Esmer create a "necessary urgency" by using the Demondim in this way? He left Linden so that she could use the ring; perhaps he used the Demondim so that Linden could use the ring 'better'.

Esmer knows too damn much about using wild magic.
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Post by Zarathustra »

I'm only 12 pages away from being caught up with you slow pokes! I'm breathing down your neck! Charging up through time on my own Ranyhyn!

At the end of this chapter, I'm left thinking: how did Esmer bring the Demondim forward? He can summon a caesure, but not create one (surely?). Doesn't the creation require wild magic? Just because time "seldom hinders" him doesn't mean he's a caesure factory. Also, if he could bring the Demondim forward, why not the Staff? Too easy? Not enough betrayal? The more we consider these issues, the more Esmer becomes a mere plot device, rather than a character. Needlessly complicating the issue for dramatic purposes.

Wayfriend I don’t think your theory about using wild magic has been disproven at all—except for the fact that thinking of Jeremiah is required. I think any passion will do the trick, even fear.
Donaldson wrote:“She was already desperate . . .” “Between one heartbeat and the next, white fire bloomed from the hard circle under her shirt as though it had arisen straight out of her heart.
I don’t really like the line: “With that delicate instrument, she probed the necessary structure of time.” If wild magic can be focused into such a delicate instrument, then why is it a “thermonuclear bomb” while the Staff is a “sniper rifle”?? Why does SRD stress the difference between the two—extravagant, wild, uncontrollable vs. precise, Lawful, and controllable—when wild magic can EASILY be focused with such delicacy??? Yes, the line of prose is pretty. But the contradicion is just messy.
Relayer wrote:. . .if she hadn't waited, the Demondim would have been left in the past, and that certainly would've altered the history of the Land (though Linden didn't know that at the time, it was clearly part of her thought process about whatever was going to happen).
How could it have been part of her thought process that she might need to take whatever betrayal Esmer might cook up back with her? How did she know it was going to be an “attack” at all? Esmer’s betrayals thus far have never taken the form of an attack, and certainly not the form of something that would threaten the integrity of history so blatantly (yet even before they know, they call it an "attack"). If he wanted to betray them in a way that threatens time, well, his helping Linden by bringing her a caesure in the first place was certainly threatening to time. Just because Linden failed to hurt time (we hope) shouldn't negate the fact that his help was also a form of betrayal. It's like "helping" a child get high on drugs. The act itself is a betrayal, even if it's what they want. No need for Demondim, except to have an "exciting" scene.
Relayer wrote:I wouldn't say they were held off. They were barely slowed by the attacks.
I agree. Donaldson slowed the text down so much here that it gives the impression that they held them off. But he clearly states that Linden had “a dozen heartbeats” in order to save them. He also stresses over and over how pitiful their resistance is. Maybe the Demondim should have been able to blast right through—if that were their intension. But they weren’t expecting resistance at all. And surely the Demondim must feel the presence of the Staff and white gold—two objects that should give them pause. Maybe they were simply testing the resistance they unexpectedly find. Who knows what their goal was? It isn’t really clear they had a goal at all (another problem with this scene). Why should they care about destroying some ur-viles?

Really, I think this one of the weakest scenes in the whole book. In that sense, I agree with Wayfriend that it’s disappointing. But I think it’s disappointing for different reasons. I don’t think it suffers from lack of spectacle (i.e., needing a larger release of power that obliterates resistance); rather I think it suffers from too much spectacle. Pointless spectacle, put there for no other reason (seemingly) than to ratchet up the excitement level. In previous books, it was clear that attacks from the “bad guys” were driven by directed malice, Lord Foul’s desire to make Covenant despair and thus use too much power. But this attack has nothing to do with the characters—except Esmer’s impersonal contradictions. However, his need to betray could have been satisfied in any number of ways. I get the impression that Esmer chose this particular way because Donaldson wanted a cool threat. The “gee-whiz factor.” And though the threats of previous books have all been cool, I never got the impression that they were gratuitous. With this one, I do. The threat is meaningless to the characters themselves—except the one character who conveniently skipped out of the scene.

I hope that Relayer’s and Wayfriend’s suspicions are correct that this will pay off later, because it certainly isn’t paying off now.
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Post by danlo »

Malik wrote:If wild magic can be focused into such a delicate instrument, then why is it a “thermonuclear bomb” while the Staff is a “sniper rifle”??
Doesn't it depend on how it's wielded?> TC could shave with it, but I agree if Linden isn't that adept at opening the door-how could she be so refined with it?

Sorry if this has been discussed to death, but isn't Joan the primary reason for caesures? (sorry if this sounds naive-I haven't been keeping up as much as I'd like too)
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Post by Relayer »

malik23 wrote:
Relayer wrote:. . .if she hadn't waited, the Demondim would have been left in the past, and that certainly would've altered the history of the Land (though Linden didn't know that at the time, it was clearly part of her thought process about whatever was going to happen).
How could it have been part of her thought process that she might need to take whatever betrayal Esmer might cook up back with her? How did she know it was going to be an “attack” at all?
You should never quote me on something I said 2 weeks ago... I don't really remember that passage, or what I meant :)

Seriously, I think the point was that Linden wasn't going to leave the past until she knew what the threat was. It may have endangered the Waynhim, who she felt she owed a debt for caring for the staff. It may have altered time, she just didn't know.
malik23 wrote:
Relayer wrote:I wouldn't say they were held off. They were barely slowed by the attacks.
I agree. Donaldson slowed the text down so much here that it gives the impression that they held them off. ... <snip> ... Maybe they were simply testing the resistance they unexpectedly find. Who knows what their goal was?
The same question I ask in the next chapter's dissection. I won't say more till you get there.
"History is a myth men have agreed upon." - Napoleon

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danlo
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Post by danlo »

Senor wrote:Donaldson also expresses several of the “ethics” that are repeated throughout the Chronicles:

Simple, ordinary people are the true heroes

Actions taken with good intent may bring evil consequences

Evils of the past are never totally defeated

What is important is what we do for those we love
Interesting points to question him on (or have him expound on), during the Elohimfest interview! 8)
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Post by dlbpharmd »

In this chapter, we again see the Illearth Stone. I confess that I was disappointed somewhat to see the Stone again (it seemed to be another trip to the well.) But after thinking about it, I can see the necessity for having the Stone make an appearance as the Stonemight in TWL. The story could have easily been told without it, and the fact that the Demondim access the Stone through a ceasure is easily understood. So, why have the Stone as a plot device in TWL?
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Post by wayfriend »

You can see how the Stone can be accessed through a ceasure?!?! I can't!!! Where is the ceasure? How do they reach through it without going through it? How do they keep it "pointed" at the same time? How do they keep it pointed at the same place? How do they keep it subdued and out of sight?

The purpose of the fragment in TWL? I'm not sure.
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Post by Zarathustra »

I had no problem with it in TWL. I thought a small sliver was a very small sip "from the well," as DLB says. With everything else that was changed so dramatically on our second trip through the Land, it was nice to have this sliver of continuity.

On the other hand, in Runes it was literally and figuratively a massive break from the story's continuity. I mean, a caesure was necessary to bring it's effects forward through time. That's the exact opposite of a connecting event; completely different from a fragment lying around due to previous events (linear cause/effect). It's the difference between finding stone tools in an archaeological dig, and finding a computer in an archaeological dig--or even worse: your own pocket watch you dropped in your own archaeological dig. It's a contaminated scene.

But I suppose this jarring effect was what Donaldson was going for, how he justified it in his mind. The payoff will determine whether or not he pulled it off effectively.
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