A Gift for this Hall

[Zarathustra]

[Post deleted due to author revision.]

[Zarathustra]

[Post deleted due to author revision.]

[Zarathustra]

[Post deleted due to author revision.]

[Zarathustra]

[Post deleted due to author revision.]

[iQuestor]

hey malik -- i am copying this over to word so I can print it out and read it. I read the first few paragraphs and it is definately pulling me in. Give me a little time and I will give you my thoughts. thanks

[Zarathustra]

Thanks iQuestor. I know I've already mentioned this to you, but for the sake of anyone else here thinking of doing the same . . . copying into to Word will remove crucial (IMO) Italics which I use to indicate the character's unspoken thoughts, stressed speech, and repetitions of earlier statements. If anyone else is thinking of doing what iQuestor mentioned, PM me and I can just email the properly formatted Word document. I know it is difficult to read a large piece without page numbers.

[iQuestor]

OK So Malik sent me a word document with chapter one , I printed it out for the plane ride to ABQ to attend ElohimFest 2007. I read it twice on the plane going out, then once on the way back to make sure I didn't miss anything.

What follows is just my opinion as a reader, Malik -- I am not a professional author so my advice, suggestions, etc may not jibe with your beliefs, but please know they are given in the spirit of critiquing from a readers perspective (who, incidentally, reads a lot) and I hope it helps you.

In my opinion, the height of reading a story is when you forget you are reading a story and become absorbed. If the story is well written and smooth, this can happen if the story is good enought... When I was in High School, I took shop in 9th grade. My class project was to take a pine stump from a box and make a lamp base out of it. We hade to cut it to size, trim it, then sand the living sh*t out of it with ever decreasing grits of sand paper to get it smooth as a baby's bottom, then we varnished it and gave it to our mom when it was done. The teacher graded it not by looks but by how well we had sanded and finished it. He took a nylon hose and rubbed it all over every surface; if there were any catches in the nylon from places splintered or not sanded well enough, then our grade dropped a letter point. Malik, you have done well with this chapter in all the big ways: Struture, flow, narration, punctuation, continuity, etc, so you know exactly what you are doing. All I can do is get out my nylon and show you some small places where, as a reader, i felt a catch.

In the Tavern
In the first several paragraphs, we meet the protagonist Malik sitting in a tavern on what he has been told all of his life will be the turning point of his life. He knows he is different than most people, got a gift from his Dad which allowed him to observe and notice things others don't. He also observes the skies for signs that things will come apart as his dad predicted he would on this exact day. In the Tavern, He hears the world trying to speak, a storm is brewing, and he is sitting surreally observing the patrons, drinking a beer, gathering courage to go take a look.

Bob's comments:

1. He has this gift from his dad, he knows he is different. he is hearing the world try to speak to "us", and looks around and is amazed that no one else can hear it. He mentally contrasts how humans use and depend on society to quell and extinquish the world trying to speak to them (perhaps a symbol of how we are ignoring the state of the world, and issues such as pollution and global warming)

speaking to "us" 'caught' me because, at 23, and devoting so much time to taking measurements and knowing he was different, Malik shouldn't expect them to hear it. No one else except his Dad ever has. I would assume he would pontificate the messages he is hearing but not interpreting were meant for those who could hear. After all, his Dad told him you had the be deranged to see / hear the signs.

2. Maliks sky measurements -- Later we learn Malik uses an Astrolabe to measure the heavens for signs that things are coming undone. There is a passing reference to this that he watched the sky. Later the waitress, Rakheal, whom Malik has known for a while, speaks with him. He is going out and he says to her that he has to leave and go out into the night, even when a storm is brewing because "he will lose the sky" if he waits longer.

This caught me because it made no sense on the first reading and it was only after another read did I know what he meant. I thought this was a (rather bad) stab by Malik at being mysterious and cryptic. But after reading later, it makes sense that literally, the storm will hide the stars and he cant take his measurements. (and that they'll all lose the sly literally if his measurements are off) So i think you werent subtle enough. My suggestion here is : Let people know he has gear with him in the tavern. Notice his atrolabe on the table, his bone tipped tripon leaned against the booth. have someone jeer at him for his gear, or bump someone with it. Have the beer spilling patrons trip over it, something Just so we know that he has gear to look at the stars, and also that rakheal knows he does this, so that the final remark to her gives the impact it should, because it has two meanings: He will literally lose sight of the sky, and if his dad was correct, they will all lose it (and everything else) if he confirms the flaw in the heavens.

In the woods:

the descriptions of his gear is very good. and as he waits and sights in the two stars, very good drama and suspense.

When he gets the last sighting, and realizes what his dad said was true, the unexpected happens, and riders come, he thinks the worse: assassins. This is well done, you caught me off guard, and that is what you were supposed to do.

The horsemen ride on the front edge of the storm, which is a good visual. "Horses kicking up storm clouds" is a great visual. Malik thinks they are assassins and becomes scared. Here are a few things that caught me here:

Assasins: Now, why would he think that? Is there someone after him? Does he have any reason to think he is important enough to merit 5 men on horseback who would be sent at this particular time to kill him? Even if they were assassins, unless they were specifically looking for Malik, and he knew that was possible, why would he worry or think that's what they were? I dont buy his level of fear of the men -- Malik thinks the gods might have sent them, but as a reader, we havent heard about any gods, so they dont seem to be a plausible threat.

My suggestion is: make them something Malik (and the reader, who sympathises with Malik) would actually and plausibly fear. Either let us know that he has sufficient reason to fear assassins, and that he has done something or possesses something to fear that someone is after him, or make them something he and we fear: thieves, Orcs, Liberals, whatever. Or, give us some reason to beleive the gods would and could come after him for his knowledge.

A great line that ends badly: "Out of all the possible demands that could have been uttered, one of them shouted, 'We need shelter, quickly'..."

I see what you are going for. Malik is pissing himself the riders rush at him, looking down from great horses run hard, a storm sat their feet, and looking very dangerous,and then we find out they aren't dangerous.

This needs to be reworked -- heighten up their bad appearance, scare the shit out of us, describe the ferocity of the mounts, stamping and straining towards little ol Malik on the ground, clutching his tripod and astrolabe -- the foam and flecks of rage at their bits, the red eyes and mean demenour of the men, backlit by lighting and thunder (as affirmation the gods did send them) their giant and dangerous weapons, then have one of them lean in close and just deliver the line. Mkae it work better , you have a great setup, you need to raise the stakes a little and take us a little higher. does this make sense?

riding back to the tavern:

good description, i like the touch it is a different world on the way back, both because of the storm and lighting, and because of Maliks new knowlege. I like his uncertainly at his abilty to lead them rightly, he has been thrown off guard by them and has experienced the pivot of his life, so he would be on shakey ground.

A note on dialog: your dialog is pretty good throughout, but they speak modern proper USA english. It's a bit disconcerting -- they seem to have no slang and no references to objects or ideas which we don't know about. I would expect to read their dialog with a subtle hint of regional dialect and some references and ideas which we have to figure out for ourselves.

"Yes, Godamnit, thats exactly what I need": -- use godammit -- it catches less. the n really stands out. not sure why.

Suggestion: Make Rakheal a little more flirty with Malik in the first paragraphs, to add another element. Malik hasn't really noticed her, but you hint she might have liked him. They have known each other for years, but I don't buy the connections and that she seems to pout a little when Malik dismisses her. This would help when Kaban makes Malik notice her, look at her. He could realize she has been trying to get his attention for years.

I like how you have introduced pleasure houses, and they have been brough up now the requisit 3 times or so, so i as a reader know they or the wizards who run them are sinister, that they are danger guised in pleasure and entertainment. well done.

Dwarves: Malik comments they are "commiting suicide". By the description, they are having a civil war. so Suicide "catches" unless you mean racial suicide. So you want to make that a clear point...

"Slick trail of blood and water" is a good visual and a great point to make me want to read the next chapter.

looking forward to the next chapter, send it to me in word if you would.


Bob

[Zarathustra]

Iquestor, you are literally the first person who has commented on this version without having read the earlier verisons. My wife, bless her, has read many horrible versions going back 10 years. Now she suffers the same problems I do when rereading: too much familiarity. Your contribution is extremely valuable. Thank you very much.

Your shop class sculture metaphor was interesting. However, I was expecting this to mean you were going to point out flaws (which would be perfectly fine), but you seemed to point out things that "caught you" in the sense of catching your interest. Either is fine--both are even better--I just want to make sure I'm understanding you.

He mentally contrasts how humans use and depend on society to quell and extinquish the world trying to speak to them (perhaps a symbol of how we are ignoring the state of the world, and issues such as pollution and global warming)

Yes, ignoring the state of the world--even if the world is not in any particular danger--is a major theme I'm driving at. It is more about the people themselves, rather than any danger to the world, that I was hoping to acheive. There's always going to be people who say the world is about to end. They've been saying this for many 1000s of years. I was going for ambiguity in the first chapter (and beyond) that there actually was any danger to the world itself (hence, Malik goes back and forth on that issue, and will continue to do so), and rather point out that whatever Malik is experiencing could be due to the power of suggestion of his father, combined with whatever is "wrong" with him personally. (More on that in the following chapters.) At the very least, I was hoping that it might be obvious that Malik was overreacting . . . hence his reaction to the riders--which you seemed to have a problem with.

speaking to "us" 'caught' me because, at 23, and devoting so much time to taking measurements and knowing he was different, Malik shouldn't expect them to hear it. No one else except his Dad ever has. I would assume he would pontificate the messages he is hearing but not interpreting were meant for those who could hear. After all, his Dad told him you had the be deranged to see / hear the signs.

Good point. Maybe I didn't make this plain enough: he doesn't want there to be something wrong with the world, thus he wants to attribute the fact that he notices something wrong with it to him being crazy, like his father. But that's not a particularly encouraging conclusion either. So he wants others to "hear" it so that he can conclude he isn't crazy. But, of course, this then validates that there's something wrong with the world. Catch 22.

This caught me because it made no sense on the first reading and it was only after another read did I know what he meant. I thought this was a (rather bad) stab by Malik at being mysterious and cryptic. But after reading later, it makes sense that literally, the storm will hide the stars and he cant take his measurements. (and that they'll all lose the sly literally if his measurements are off) So i think you werent subtle enough.

No, I actually like the fact that you thought I was being badly cryptic. The fact that you learn later I was being literal is just fine with me. In fact, there's much more that you'll learn at first sounded figurative which later turns out to be literal. This is something that will continue throughout the entire trilogy (and beyond). I've got a lot staked on that expectation. It's certainly not accidental, and central to my story. A hint for chapters two and three: the storm is another figurative symbol which turns out to be a literal threat.

Assasins: Now, why would he think that? Is there someone after him? Does he have any reason to think he is important enough to merit 5 men on horseback who would be sent at this particular time to kill him? Even if they were assassins, unless they were specifically looking for Malik, and he knew that was possible, why would he worry or think that's what they were? I dont buy his level of fear of the men -- Malik thinks the gods might have sent them, but as a reader, we havent heard about any gods, so they dont seem to be a plausible threat.

These are very good points. This is where I tacked together two different versions of the opening scene (I've got about 20 of them). So it is very useful to me to see that readers can still sense this "tacked together" quality. The question for why he would have reason to think he's important enough to merit 5 men on horseback to kill him goes right to the point: I wanted it to make him look freakin' nuts. It's entirely paranoid. That's what I wanted. I want people to think that he's losing it at this point--but maybe I don't have enough build up to make that credible. And at the same time, you'll learn in Chapter 2 that he actually has credible reasons to think these men might be here to kill him, or tied to men who might want this (again, blurring the figurative with the literal). His father has conditioned him for this. At the very least, that should be apparent by the end of chapter 1 with the "they'll come looking for you one day" memory. His father's advice was wrong--and right. But maybe I waited too long, and was too ambiguous.

A great line that ends badly: "Out of all the possible demands that could have been uttered, one of them shouted, 'We need shelter, quickly'..."

This is useful for me to know. I didn't achieve what I was going for here (related to the above): I wanted it plain that he is seeing too much in what is happening. He is imposing meaning where there is none. It was all a meaningless coincidence which just happened to coincide with his crazy father's predictions . . . and yet it's not so meaningless afterall (you'll see later). But that's the whole point, one of the central issues. The tension between meaning and coincidence. Purpose and absurdity.

I see what you are going for. Malik is pissing himself the riders rush at him, looking down from great horses run hard, a storm sat their feet, and looking very dangerous,and then we find out they aren't dangerous.

Yes, but I hoped that it wasn't merely due to him seeing some scary riders and "pissing himself." I hoped that it was directly tied to him seeing the "sign" in the heavens and being undone by that revelation to the point that he'd misinterpret commonplace events as something equally catastrophic. Maybe I didn't exaggerate enough.

riding back to the tavern:

good description, i like the touch it is a different world on the way back, both because of the storm and lighting, and because of Maliks new knowlege. I like his uncertainly at his abilty to lead them rightly, he has been thrown off guard by them and has experienced the pivot of his life, so he would be on shakey ground.

Again . . . the figurative will be revealed to be literal. You'll see in chapter 2 why this storm is so disorienting to him. You're right in everything you said. But there's more . . .

A note on dialog: your dialog is pretty good throughout, but they speak modern proper USA english. It's a bit disconcerting -- they seem to have no slang and no references to objects or ideas which we don't know about. I would expect to read their dialog with a subtle hint of regional dialect and some references and ideas which we have to figure out for ourselves.

Yeah, that's intensional, too. I'm glad it was jarring. I made a conscious effort early on to make the language be as "natural" as possible, and not dependent upon people's expectations of "medival" language. I'm not talking about medival people. I'm talking about people who could live in our world. For a very specific reason.

Suggestion: Make Rakheal a little more flirty with Malik in the first paragraphs, to add another element. Malik hasn't really noticed her, but you hint she might have liked him. They have known each other for years, but I don't buy the connections and that she seems to pout a little when Malik dismisses her. This would help when Kaban makes Malik notice her, look at her. He could realize she has been trying to get his attention for years.

This interaction has actually undergone quite a lot of revision. I've tried to make her more sympathetic lately, rather than just an obvious sex object. I wanted Malik to not be attracted to her until she showed some real feeling--even if that feeling was desperation, something rising above the level of complacency. Because she's certainly not attractive physically. But she can overcome this with fervent longing--a feeling Malik recognizes within himself, but is ashamed to admit. That's why he doesn't like it when she displays a similar emotion--it reminds him of himself, of how unrealistic his own hopes are. But at the same time, it registers as unwanted attraction (similar to how he reacts to the distraction of the people listening to "meaningless" stories at the hearth).

All of this is not to argue with you, but rather to say I didn't exactly accomplish what I was hoping to accomplish. That's fine. I've read this too many times to see it clearly any more. That's why your comments are so useful. Thank you for taking the time to read it and comment.

[Warmark]

I'm not promising any Earth-shattering advice, but when i get the time later on i'll give this a read over.

[iQuestor]

All of this is not to argue with you, but rather to say I didn't exactly accomplish what I was hoping to accomplish. That's fine. I've read this too many times to see it clearly any more. That's why your comments are so useful. Thank you for taking the time to read it and comment.

You are welcome -- your comments clear things up for me, and I guess it would be helpful to me to read the next one in Word.

I recently read a book by Corey Doctorow on writing and he was talking about workshops, and pointed out the dangers of reading and critiquing unfinished work. he made the point that a critiquing reader could not draw valid conclusions on main points and continuity unless it could be read through to the end. He said the main focus on unfinished work would be grammer structure, etc. I see his point, but if you want me to read the others send them to me and I will be more than glad to do so.

[Zarathustra]

Iquestor, I thought I already sent chapters 2 and 3 in that Word document. Check the email again, and if I'm wrong I'll send you those, too.

Warmark, thanks! Your advice doesn't have to be earth shattering. Something as simple as, "I got bored here, I was confused there," helps me polish it up. I certainly don't want it to feel like a chore. If it's work, then I haven't done my job.

Thanks, guys.

[iQuestor]

Malik

My bad -- I only printed the first chap out forgot there was more. I will print it out and read #2 when I get it done.

I am starting out on the final installament of "it cannot be set aside" tonight so I can get it done --I have decided this past weekend that I have to get off my ass and start writing and submitting again; I havent submitted to a magazine in 5 years, but after this weekend, and talking with people like SRD and Romeo, its time for me to get back on the trail to getting published.