Deathly Hallows Discussion: Spoilers!!!

[stormrider]

See, I'm still vaguely confused. I think I read the book too fast the first time around. Thank god I'm going to the beach in a few days so I can reread.

[dlbpharmd]

Thanks for the answers! Here's another (minor) question:

Spoiler

If nineteen years have passed, what is Teddy Lupin doing on the Hogswarts Express?

[I'm Murrin]

Spoiler

He's not on the train, he's seeing Bill & Fleur's daughter off.

[dlbpharmd]

I guess it doesn't help that it was really late last night and by this point I was skimming. Thanks Murrin, I'll go back and read that part again.

[Romeo]

Finished it in about a day and a half, but it was technically a little longer than that since I just couldn't keep my eyes open any longer at the very end, so had to finish the last chapter (and epilogue) first thing this morning. I'm a sloooow reader - so this sets all sort of reading records for me!

LOVED it, of course! Nothing what I expected, but I see that as a good thing.

Spoiler

When Voldemort killed Harry, he didn't *really* kill him - he killed that part of his own soul that was buried there in their first encounter. I remember the explanation being something like that part being killed because of the way Harry presented himself for slaughter - he needed to sacrifice himself in that way for it to work, which is why Dumbledore couldn't tell him about it all in advance. Can anyone say "necessity of freedom?" <grin>

Spoiler

While we're on that subject, did anyone else's eyes pop out when we get to the scene where there's a giant tied up against the wall ... um, tree ... and the hero was standing practically unarmed in front of the all powerful evil enemy? And the method of killing the hero involved a green-colored power? At least *this* time the giant got to escape!

Spoiler

I disagree about the "19 years later" keeping things open for more stories in between. Harry was firm about the Elder Wand dieing (dying?) with him. But that means he can't dual with anyone anymore - if he's defeated, it gets passed on even if he's not killed in the dual. So I'm guessing the final ending may have been the alternate way for JKR to squelch other stories without having to kill Harry - it seems that he and all the others lived a pretty peaceful life in those 19 years. Anyone see the movie "Stranger than Fiction?" I wonder if JKR had a similar internal struggle, and found a way to keep her hero alive (at the risk of having an ending that wasn't as strong as other possible endings?).

Spoiler

Deaths. Yes - all as sad as could be. I almost cried when Dobbie died. The others hurt as well, but I don't think I got choked up again until Harry saw Collin Creavy's body being carried by. I'm surprised - almost shocked - that Sirius and/or Dumbledore didn't return. I really thought that would happen. I can see why Dumbledore had to die (for real), but the way Sirius' death was staged I *really* thought he would somehow be back (although they made it more possitive in the movie - he was actually hit by the Avada Kadavera spell, not just knocked back into the mist).

Spoiler

I'm not surprised about Snape (I had him pegged as a hero early on in the series), but I am surprised at how deeply his allegiance ran.

[Seafoam Understone]

Spoiler

He wasn't all dead, he was only mostly dead. Lily's protection in Harry's blood that Voldemort took was still in Voldemort, who wasn't dead. Harry couldn't die unless Voldemort was already all dead.

LOL I'm sorry but reading that explaination I heard Billy Crystal's voice as the Miracle Worker "Max" from Princess Bride... kept waiting for the part for someone to yell at Harry: "Hey! Whats so important that it's worth dying for?"
Then Harry replying... "To Blave!"

But that explaination helped.

[aliantha]

Spoiler

He wasn't all dead, he was only mostly dead. Lily's protection in Harry's blood that Voldemort took was still in Voldemort, who wasn't dead. Harry couldn't die unless Voldemort was already all dead.

LOL I'm sorry but reading that explaination I heard Billy Crystal's voice as the Miracle Worker from Princess Bride... kept waiting for the part for someone to yell at Harry: "Hey! Whats so important that it's worth dying for?"
Then Harry replying... "To Blave!"

But that explaination helped.

Spoiler

Hmm, interesting. I chalked it up to the fact that the Elder Wand wasn't working for Voldemort all that well, since it truly belonged to Harry. Remember the part in the woods where Voldy uses the Cruciatus Curse on a supposedly-dead Harry, and Harry flops around like a doll but he's surprised that it doesn't hurt? I thought it was because of the mismatch between the Elder Wand and Voldy.

[Auleliel]

Spoiler

He wasn't all dead, he was only mostly dead. Lily's protection in Harry's blood that Voldemort took was still in Voldemort, who wasn't dead. Harry couldn't die unless Voldemort was already all dead.

LOL I'm sorry but reading that explaination I heard Billy Crystal's voice as the Miracle Worker from Princess Bride... kept waiting for the part for someone to yell at Harry: "Hey! Whats so important that it's worth dying for?"
Then Harry replying... "To Blave!"

But that explaination helped.

I actually was thinking about Billy Crystal at the time (love the Princess Bride).

[emotional leper]

Spoiler

He wasn't all dead, he was only mostly dead. Lily's protection in Harry's blood that Voldemort took was still in Voldemort, who wasn't dead. Harry couldn't die unless Voldemort was already all dead.

LOL I'm sorry but reading that explaination I heard Billy Crystal's voice as the Miracle Worker from Princess Bride... kept waiting for the part for someone to yell at Harry: "Hey! Whats so important that it's worth dying for?"
Then Harry replying... "To Blave!"

But that explaination helped.

Spoiler

Hmm, interesting. I chalked it up to the fact that the Elder Wand wasn't working for Voldemort all that well, since it truly belonged to Harry. Remember the part in the woods where Voldy uses the Cruciatus Curse on a supposedly-dead Harry, and Harry flops around like a doll but he's surprised that it doesn't hurt? I thought it was because of the mismatch between the Elder Wand and Voldy.

Spoiler

I'd attributed that more to the fact that Harry's Self-sacrafice had done for everyone what his mother's had done for him -- which I think he said at one point -- protected them from Voldemort. "That's why none of your curses are binding," I think he said.

[Sqorrox]

Aliantha,

Spoiler

The reason the Crutatus Curse on Harry in the woods didn't work was because he was, to all intents and purposes dead to the pain of it even though he was alive because he had decided to come back and had already steeled himself. I didn't think Voldemort was surprised by the way Harry's "body" reacted as it wouldn't bunch up in pain or anything because, we can only assume, dead bodies don't feel pain.

As for the book as a whole OMG WOW [bulging staring eyes] it was FANTASTIC AND AMAZING!!!

Spoiler

As for Snape, I can't say that I really thought that he was in love with Lilly, might have had a fondness for her but the whole calling her a Mudblood in bk5 dampened it for me. The way his memmories were put together were really good! Showing how Lily and Petunia used to be friends, how he'd spied on them and how everything fell appart for both Snape in connection with Lily and Lily in connection with Petunia.
The last conversation with Dumbledore was really well thought out - it explained lots and kept the essence of their TRUE relationship. The intriguing past of Dumbledore was very good and Aberforth being the barman of the Hogs Head genious! That tunnel into the Room of Requirement sheer brilliance. The tradgedy of Ariana was well done as, even though everybody knows Rita Skeeter is a big fat lier, you were inclined to believe her when Dodge couldn't back up the perfect image of Dumbledore and when you learned of Bathilda's connection it gave her tale even more validity. The idea of Ariana's power reminded me a lot of the the Balck Magician trilogy by Trudy Canavan and Aberforth's love for her was poignant.
The Malfoys were very interesting, you knew they'd kinda crumbled at the end of bk6 but believed they'd crawl their way back up but ended up broken and just glad of what little peace they got.
The Hallows too were higly intriguing and the way JK handled Harry's mastery of them fantastic. It was right that he should find the stone and that it should be moony, padfoot, prongs and lilly that came back as his parents were so important to him and had helped him in the graveyard, Sirius gave him hope again and gave him a link to his parents and family and history and Lupin was the man that taught Harry so much and that was always there for him and Harry was now godfather to his son. They were all characters that gave him strength and knowledge throught the series. His true posession of the elder wand was well crafted but it was always going to be that Harry would keep his own wand (the Pheonix tail one) because it contained so many memories and had saved him so many times. The cloak was the only one he would ever keep 1) because he owned it anyway and 2) because his father had owned it and Dumbledore had given it to him.
My theory on the crippled child thing in Kings Cross was that it was the part of Harry that hated and despised and did all those other nasty things but it was trapped and cantained within all the good things; the love and courage and humour and stuff that is Harry's main character, shown by Kings Cross the place. The connection with how Voldemort looked before his resurection was that Voldemort had gone so far down the lane of hate and all things bad that it actually changed his appearance, that his soul was so tortured and ripped that it warped his body and the reason it would be worse for him if he was to come to his own Kings Cross is that it would all be the crying baby child thing.
I definitely think that it was right that Neville should destroy the last Horcrux because he was never a coward and he really did stand up for what he believed in.
Loved the touch of Harry mimicing his mother by sacrifising himself to save the others just like Lily sacrificed herself to save Harry.
The epilogue was very nicely done and the Albus Severus touch was very nice. I don't quite get why nineteen and not twenty but hey!
The humour in the book was surely running thick and fast in many places including basically all scenes with Fred and George especially where (I forger which one) berates to other about the whole of ear humour and you go for holey, holey! and Harry's little comment when he uses the crutatus curse and says I see what Belatrix meant, you really do have to mean it, or words to that effect, was very funny.
Loved Potterwatch - how amazing can you get!

Sorry for rambling on to all those that read the spoilers but my dad doesnt' like harry potter, blasphemy I know! but what can you do; he does at least like SRD! My mum hasn't read it because I got to read it first because I bought it at Belfast International airport when coming back from Omagh and, as I am an AWFULLY slow reader I didn't finish it until 8 on Sunday night so it took me a good 16/17 hours to read it and mum had to go down to Nottingham on the monday for my great aunts funeral so I can't talk to her about it, I don't think my sister's read and she doesn't live with us anymore and I doubt my brother likes it and he lives in Newcastle! so I have no one to talk to about it cos all my friends are away on holiday!!!!! :@ I have to say dunno what chapter or whatever it was but from about a sixteenth to a tenth of an inch from the end to

Spoiler

When Harry, Ron and Hermione get up into the headmaster's office

is, generally where you need to have to tissues close to hand, especially when it gets to
Spolier:
The trio getting into Hogsmeade and then into Hogwarts and Lupin and Tonks' deaths.

All in all really great book and a brilliant end to the series.
Sorry again about the screeds but, really, there is NOTHING better to do where I live, especially seing as I'm at my dads so don't even have a bike to ride or a tv to watch!

[Romeo]

Ahhh! Please edit your post to put the correct spoiler tags around things. It's {spoiler}Spoiler stuff in here.{/spoiler} except use [ and ] instead of { and }.

[Cameraman Jenn]

I called Pam to see if she could edit it since she's a mod on this forum.

[emotional leper]

I called Pam to see if she could edit it since she's a mod on this forum.

Hercule! You people have each others' phone numbers?

Is this all part of the conspiracy to take over the World and make a Lord's Council to govern it?

[variol son]

I just asked ALynna to take care of it.

[dlbpharmd]

New member, don't be too harsh.

[Seafoam Understone]

I called Pam to see if she could edit it since she's a mod on this forum.

Hercule! You people have each others' phone numbers?

Is this all part of the conspiracy to take over the World and make a Lord's Council to govern it?

Heck yeah! It'd be a hellva lot better than letting whomever is running the world now do it.

[Cameraman Jenn]

Why yes, EL, some of us have each other's phone numbers AND even worse, some of us have actually talked on the phone, OH WAIT, some of us have even met IN REAL LIFE!!! Creepy ain't it?

[Romeo]

New member, don't be too harsh.

Course not! Took me a while to figure out spoilers, too. I guess I should have softened my scream of surprise with a smiley. Sorry.

[emotional leper]

Why yes, EL, some of us have each other's phone numbers AND even worse, some of us have actually talked on the phone, OH WAIT, some of us have even met IN REAL LIFE!!! Creepy ain't it?

NO! REAL LIFE IS A MYTH! A GOD DAMN LIBERAL MYTH! LIKE THE MOON! AND NATIVE AMERICANS!

*dies*

[Cameraman Jenn]

Ok....SO, as Menolly knows, I came down to work on Saturday to await my copy of DH. After a while I decided I wasn't going to wait anymore since it was an hour past the normal delivery time for ups. I ended up going to Borders and buying a copy so I could start reading right away. I figured I would just give the extra copy to someone. It's a darn good thing I did go buy a copy because I STILL don't have my guaranteed release day delivery copy of DH as promised from amazon. GRRR. I have also just spent a useless hour on the phone trying to find out WHY. I still don't know incidentally. UPS says they gave it to the post office. USPS says they never got it. Amazon says I have to check with both before they can do anything WHICH I already DID. Apparently they either don't believe me or that is what they are told to say no matter what I say. DAMMIT. I am not paying for one book twice. They better either find the copy they shipped or refund my money or ship another. I don't care which.