Deathly Hallows Discussion: Spoilers!!!

[dlbpharmd]

Damn, that sucks. My copy came from Amazon by USPS on Saturday. Seems to me that if you have tracking data showing UPS gave it to USPS, then the post office needs to find it.

[Menolly]

Thanks Jenn, VS, and Alynna. It figures the one day I decide to actually go out and leave the Watch for a few hours, is the one day I'm needed to be here.

Why yes, EL, some of us have each other's phone numbers AND even worse, some of us have actually talked on the phone, OH WAIT, some of us have even met IN REAL LIFE!!! Creepy ain't it?

Not to worry. EL and I will exchange such soon, I am sure. By the end of the year for sure I bet.

[emotional leper]

Thanks Jenn, VS, and Alynna. It figures the one day I decide to actually go out and leave the Watch for a few hours, is the one day I'm needed to be here.

Why yes, EL, some of us have each other's phone numbers AND even worse, some of us have actually talked on the phone, OH WAIT, some of us have even met IN REAL LIFE!!! Creepy ain't it?

Not to worry. EL and I will exchange such soon, I am sure. By the end of the year for sure I bet.

My girlfriend thinks that you're going to keep me as some sort of pet, or jester.

If my thumb winds up in a birthday cake, I shall be most cross.

[O-gon-cho]

My girlfriend thinks that you're going to keep me as some sort of pet, or jester.

Pheh. Tell yon fair maiden that I have enough of jesters dealing with Moxinomal over in the Pantheon...

If my thumb winds up in a birthday cake, I shall be most cross.

Just when is your birthday, m'l-rd? And...do you like either coconut or key lime?

[Cameraman Jenn]

Spoiler

Ok. Here goes. I lurved every bit of it. Ron's desertion and return. Snape's revelations via pensieve. The truth about the wand loyalty via duelling. I cried at Dobby's death. I cried at Fred's death. I cried my heart out at Neville, every moment of Neville. I have loved him since day one and KNEW (check other threads) that he would come into his own. How magnificent. How wonderful. How I would have liked to see his offspring on the train in the end. Could Luna be more poignant? The paintings? Oh how I love her and her unstoppable spirit that allowed Ollivander to survive his captivity. Narcissa's betrayal, granted it was totally self serving but hey, great anyway. Ginny....what can I say, I love her. Lupin scared me a bit for awhile. His behavior was so odd. The insights into Dumbledore, great stuff. I loved the twist of Hallows versus Horcrux. I was appalled at Bathilda Bagshot's ending. Horrific for sure. I rejoiced in the triumphs and felt the pain of all the frustration. Way to go JKR. I have felt it gave me all the finality I could have wished for except one....


Dear JKR,

Upon having read your final installment of the Harry Potter series I have one question. WHY oh WHY would you set up Dolores Umbridge as such a nasty horrible unredeemable person and then just let it lie like that? I have waited BOOKS for her to get her just desserts. I thought FINALLY when I read that she had Moody's eye on her door, FINALLY we find out that horrible woman who takes pleasure in torturing people, scarring children for kicks, making life difficult just for a laugh is actually a Death Eater. How else could she have come to the knowledge that Moody's body would be there and then since Lupin and Bill went right back to find it? There must be more to her. You even said in interviews that she would be in the story again. But that's IT? Her big comeuppance is being stunned by Hermoine in disguise and having a locket replaced so she doesn't even KNOW it was stolen? After all her willingness to use the unforgivable curse of Crutiatus on STUDENTS? Her willingness to abuse people just to self aggrandize herself for nothing but her own amusement at other people's expense? That's it? I feel cheated. I wanted to see her SUFFER! She's the most evil person in the whole series. Even more so than Voldemort in my opinion. She sent dementors on a boy she didn't know just to make the freaking ministry look good for freaks sake! It's just wrong I tell you, WRONG!!!! She's a selfish, cruel, psychotic, masochistic, twisted EVIL being! Gimme some freaking closure! Make her SUFFER!!!! She deserves it more than any other person in the series. Seriously. Everyone else has motivation. Purpose. Voldy- immortality, Death Eaters, all by Voldy's motivation, whether self serving or induced, still motivation outside of themselves that makes sense. Malfoy for self protection...Dolores Umbridge, just because she gets off on making people suffer....AUUUGGHH! Surely there is a chapter missing about the suffering and comeuppance of Dolores Umbridge, to not have one is an umbrage to my sense of fairplay.

Sincerely,

Jenn

Any thoughts?

[dlbpharmd]

Good post and letter, and you're right, I wanted to see DU fry.

[emotional leper]

Just when is your birthday, m'l-rd? And...do you like either coconut or key lime?

For this Regeneration? Not quite sure. I'll let you know as soon as I remember where I parked my Tardis.

[Dragonlily]

Spoiler

I agree that Umbridge is a loose end that needed tying up. I've mentioned that one and Hermione's family, and now I've realized that I'll like to know more about Kreature. What happened to him after they had to leave the Black house? And at the end, where are Harry and Ginny living? In the Black house?

[SleeplessOne]

Spoiler

.. fascinating end to the series, I got a bit over halfway through DH and there were still a bucketload o' Horcruxes to destroy ... when the Hallows came into the picture it seemed to me that JK had moved the goalposts, that Harry would pursue the Hallows as an alternative means to bring down Voldemort - but it didnt sit well, Harry becoming a 'master of death' ... but the Hallows thing fell through (did Harry simply drop the resurrection stone ??), and the Horcruxes were once again the focus ...
Later Dumbledore himself bemoaned his own folly in seeking the Hallows as a younger man ...

I agree with Jenn that Umbridge's lack of come-uppance was a bit frustrating, and was there ever any resolution as to whether Bill had been turned into a werewolf via Fenrir's bite in HBP ? Was that covered in HBP, I dont own a copy ..

I was *slightly* disappointed that Ron actually re-joined Harry and Hermione, his walk-out was probably the biggest single shock I had reading DH, the fact that he came back lessened the impact of his original decision ..

JK's handling of Snape throughout the series has been a complete triumph; it wasn't untill approx 3/5's of the way through DH that I finally decided he *must* be on Dumbledore/Harry's side ... JK skillfully presented double-agent Snape as one of the most mysterious and ambiguous characters that I've ever come across - she provided Snape with motives for alliances with both Voldemort and Dumbledore, his actions and words always had a double-edged quality to them that kept me guessing - his plight was probably the most enjoyable aspect of the series for mine, and it was pretty nicely resolved ..

The DH was *intense* too - everywhere Harry and co. apparated there were already Death Eaters waiting for them, if not Voldemort himself ... the companion's infiltration of the Ministry and Gringott's were tense scenes too, fraught with peril ..

.. anyway, that's my thoughts on the DH ...

[emotional leper]

I like leaving certain things unexplained. It lets the story live on in the mind of its reader. One of the reasons Dune has so captivated me for so long is that, although the series ended prematurely, the last book was rewritten to make the unanswered questions answers in and of themselves.

All series should leave loose ends (if for no other reason than that the author may one day want to come back and write a <s>third chronicles</s> another work), because the lose ends are what keep people wondering.

To quote (or paraphrase,) Cain, from the Sandman: "It's not the answer that interests people! Tell them whodunnit and they forget in five minutes! Leave them with a blood-spattered, beaten corpse, and they wonder forever!"

Do you think Jack the RIpper would occupy such a large place in modern thought if he'd been found?

[Dragonlily]

Spoiler

While they are staying with Bill and Fleur there is a comment that Bill has always liked his beef very rare since his encounter with Fenrir. No other consequences mentioned. I don't know how he mananged to avoid infection, but it seems he did.

[emotional leper]

Spoiler

While they are staying with Bill and Fleur there is a comment that Bill has always liked his beef very rare since his encounter with Fenrir. No other consequences mentioned. I don't know how he mananged to avoid infection, but it seems he did.

Spoiler

I always thought that Lycanthropy in the HP universe was not a certain thing. Even Lupin's kid MAY NOT be a werewolf. Lupin says so himself. "The chance that i could have passed this on to my child," something like that. Maybe some people are just immune to lycanthropy, just as something like 90% are immune to leprosy? Maybe you have to be exposed above a certain threshold. Maybe the more 'powerful' a wizard you are, the more you are able to fight it (or the less?) We just don't really know.

[Trapper]

Most chilling moment:

Spoiler

The Ministry has fallen. Scrimgeour is dead. They are coming.

ties with, IMHO,

Voldemort killing that woman who answers a knock on her door while laughing. Her face turns to horror and she is killed seconds later. On wikipedia this is called the death of an unknown Witch, but I read it as the death of a Muggle, and all the more horrifying for it. I sincerely hope that scene is in the movie version, as it perfectly encapsulates what Voldemort means.

Saddest death:

Spoiler

Colin Creevey's death reminded me of Stephen King's "The Body". CC wasn't a major character like in SK's story, but killing off a character, almost as an afterthought, that readers care about is a powerful tool for an author when they are trying to express the heartlessness of the world they have created. More kudos to Neville though, that he was selflessly taking on the task of recovering the fallen. I love Neville, and I really enjoyed the parts where his grandmother, not to mention his peers, had finally recognized his qualities.

[Seafoam Understone]

Neville certianly was a diamond in the rough. From his first stand against Harry Ron and Hermione in the Sorcerer's Stone to the pivotal moments in DH, Rowling managed that character quite well.
We see these mousy type people all the time (even in real life) but occasionally a few of them become blinding when given the opportunity to shine.

[Romeo]

Spoiler

Didn't Kreacher lead the charge of the house elfs in the second round of battle at Hogwarts?

[aliantha]

Spoiler

Didn't Kreacher lead the charge of the house elfs in the second round of battle at Hogwarts?

Spoiler

He did. And once Harry had done in Voldy, he wondered whether he couldn't get Kreacher to bring him a sandwich. I think it's safe to assume that Kreacher continues to serve the House of Potter.

Speaking of loose ends, though, we were talking last night at dinner (now that MagickMaker has finished the book, oh happy day, we can talk spoilers now!) about how we don't know a whole lot about what happened after the end of the book. It's clear who procreated with whom. But we don't know, for instance, whether Harry got to be an Auror -- and do they even need Aurors anymore, with Voldy gone? Batty pointed out that Harry might not have been able to be an Auror, given that he didn't finish school -- and I said that I was pretty sure that whatever Harry wanted to do, the Ministry would make it happen, in gratitude.

[Romeo]

Spoiler

I suspect that the three of them did finish up at Hogwarts before entering the "real" world. I'm sure there will still be the need for Aurors - dark wizards will continue to pop-up, even if there may never be one as bad as Voldemort (and a group as organized as his Death Eaters). But I doubt that Harry would have gone on to become one since he wants the Elder Wand to die with him - and he has to stay out of duals (or situations where he could be "defeated") for that to happen. I assume none of them are teachers, although that sounds like a good career path for Harry.

[Cameraman Jenn]

Spoiler

Maybe Harry is a stay at home Dad while Ginny works

.

[Menolly]

Just when is your birthday, m'l-rd? And...do you like either coconut or key lime?

For this Regeneration? Not quite sure. I'll let you know as soon as I remember where I parked my Tardis.

OMGs...he knows of the Gallifreyans and Time L-rds as well.

From famine to feast. This is going to be incredible...

[Cameraman Jenn]

Spoiler

Did anyone else really feel let down about Umbridge? I mean seriously, JKR found the time and place to bother redeeming Percy, couldn't she have slipped in a horrible fate for Dolores Umbridge? Like Invernesse (the current minister) calls her to Hogwarts to help and she gets dragged off by acromantulas? Or stepped on by a giant. Or thrown into the room of requirement and trapped and horribly burned in the fiendfyre? Something, ANYTHING! Dolores Umbridge went so far as to desecrate and steal from Moody's corpse. Doesn't she deserve some pain?