Which Bloodguard was assigned to protect Lord Foul?

[Relayer]

Interesting train of thought. I also wonder if that particular Bloodguard saw his duty to protect the Lord he warded as higher than anything else, such that he would have continued to serve Jeroth/Foul.

I think it's fair to assume that this is a non-issue for SRD, so we won't ever know. Nor will it suddenly become a factor in the remaining books. But if it did...

Imagine if he redeemed himself by becoming the Guardian. Or he's Stave's great-great-grandfather or something...

[KAY1]

It may be part of the reason for the Bloodguard's lack of trust as well. I know after Kev ordered them away before the Ritual they said something about never allowing that to happen again and that with the New Lords, although they respected them they only obeyed them to a point. If they felt they knew better they would go against what they suggested. Perhaps the fact that they had warded Foul (by the way was he a Lord before or after the Bloodguard arrived?) was another reason to be wary. After all, if Kevin trusted Foul then it shows he was definitely fallible. No matter what the excuses (such as Foul being v powerful and disguising his true nature), the Bloodguard do not accept any form of weakness or failure. They must have been gutted when Kevin showed he made mistakes like any other person (in fact bigger as his had far reaching consequences!).

As someone else on here said though, just because they warded Foul did not mean they themselves trusted him, as they didn't trust Covenant at first and wanted to be near in case he proved himself an enemy. If they had any distrust though Kevin's trust in Foul would have made them ignore their own misgivings, which must've made them feel so betrayed when the truth came out.

[emotional leper]

Well, the bloodguard existed for about 1000 years before the Desecration, so... no idea if they were around before Lord Foul was a Lord, though.

[Peven]

Well, the bloodguard existed for about 1000 years before the Desecration, so... no idea if they were around before Lord Foul was a Lord, though.

where did you see that? it is said that Kevin lived centuries the way "normal" people lived decades, which means he would have lived 700-800 years, had he lived out his days to a "natural" end. i got the impression that Kevin had been in power for at least a while before the Haruchai showed up, so i would guess the Bloodguard were around more like 500 years prior to the desecration. if i am wrong, just point out where and i will look for it as i am making my reread of both trilogies leading up to the release of Fatal Revenant.

[KAY1]

The Bloodguard had been there 2000 yrs when TC arrived and the Desecration had been 1000 yrs before that so they had to have been there at least 1000 yrs before the ritual so I guess that is right.

[Peven]

right. those two things ARE spelled out which means the Bloodguard served 1,000 years under Kevin prior to the Desecration. i think that Foul was able to remain disguised is that the Bloodguard did not know doubt then, either of themselves or the Lords. they had made their Vow while overwhelmed by The Land's purity and vitality and until Foul sprung his trap they had been given no reason to be suspicious or distrustful.

[wayfriend]

right. those two things ARE spelled out which means the Bloodguard served 1,000 years under Kevin prior to the Desecration. i think that Foul was able to remain disguised is that the Bloodguard did not know doubt then, either of themselves or the Lords. they had made their Vow while overwhelmed by The Land's purity and vitality and until Foul sprung his trap they had been given no reason to be suspicious or distrustful.

Yes, but when did Lord Foul get exposed in the Council?

I think there was a long period between when he left the Council of Lords and when the Ritual of Desecration occurred. According to theland.antgear.com, there was a period of strife and war during this time.

Conceivably, Lord Foul may no longer have been on the Council at the time of the arrival of the Haruchai. But I am not sure if there is any evidence before or against this.

However, my heart tells me that when the Haruchai swore their vow, fighting corruption was part of their oath.

[Prebe]

Has anyone asked SRD this excellent question in The Gradual Interview? Or are you afraid that he might actually be brewing something, and that he might become to perplexed by the question?

In the apocryphal work "Lord Jeroths Cane" (thought to be a precursor to The Staff of Law), a Bloodguard by the name of Prebe is mentioned

[aTOMiC]

Has anyone asked SRD this excellent question in The Gradual Interview? Or are you afraid that he might actually be brewing something, and that he might become to perplexed by the question?

I don't believe anyone has asked about this because SRD is notorious for saying that he doesn't give much if any consideration to what happens outside what is written in the text. BUT it could be that this nameless Bloodguard might indeed end up being the nexus to the entire series in which case SRD would never speak about it until the last book was completed. So why bother asking?

[Prebe]

Indeed.

[wayfriend]

... Especially if the Bloodguard's name is "All Things Ending".

[Prebe]

How could anyone be Against that??

[aTOMiC]

... Especially if the Bloodguard's name is "All Things Ending".

Brilliant!

[Blackhawk]

that is a Giant sized question...and hopefully SRD will give it answer in the upcoming books.... its a great storyline, and I cant imagine it being ignored..... and if it is ignored i hope some talented person can give it story. would SRD be cool like Lucas and allow offshoots of his stories once all is said and done?

[drew]

Has anyone asked SRD this excellent question in The Gradual Interview? Or are you afraid that he might actually be brewing something, and that he might become to perplexed by the question?

I don't believe anyone has asked about this because SRD is notorious for saying that he doesn't give much if any consideration to what happens outside what is written in the text.....So why bother asking?

THAT would be my guess.

[Rocksister]

The Bloodguard was a direct bloodline ancestor of Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol and was possessed by a Raver at the time. New can of worms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DukkhaWaynhim]

Bannor's grandfather - Brochure. [rimshot]


dw

[Rocksister]

Bannor's grandfather - Brochure. [rimshot]


dw

Ha, you slay me, Dukkha!!! Brochure...priceless

[Horrim Carabal]

Great thread. I have always assumed:

1) Lord Foul wasn't called "Lord Foul" when he was on the Council. The betrayed Kevin or others named him Foul after the revelation that he was an enemy. LF kept the name because it gave him a chuckle.

2) He called himself Lord a-Jeroth or Lord Jeroth when he was on the Council. I believe SRD confirmed it in the GI.

3) He had a bloodguard. LF probably killed that Haruchai himself when he revealed his true nature.

4) He rode a Ranyhyn. Foul surpasses the Earthpower and can pervert or circumvent it. Same with the orcrest and high wood. His true nature was hidden even from the great horses.

5) Kevin had suspicions, but not because of something Foul did. In fact the text states he did nothing evil "that Kevin could discover". The suspicions were not based on LF's deeds, or Kevin's lore, or Earthpower. The suspicions were pure old intuition and gut feelings. Hence Kevin's distrust of them and shame at feeling them.

What *I* would like to read is an account of what happened *after* LF revealed his evil but *before* the Desecration.

Imagine that conversation between LF and Kevin, when K challenges him to the Ritual, and LF agrees.

LF knows it won't destroy him, but doesn't want Kevin to know that. Kevin would never do the Ritual if he thought Foul would survive. Even if he knew Foul would be diminished for 1000 or 2000 years, he still would not (I believe). Kevin had to think the Despiser would be undone by the Ritual.

So imagine Foul's brilliance in agreeing, but not seeming too eager. He can't tip off Kevin that he (LF) will survive. He has to trick Kevin into thinking that he (LF) hates the Land, the Lords, and Kevin himself so intensely that he is willing to kill himself to wreck it and destroy the Lords.

Shades of "we are foemen, you and I"...LF's lies are so brilliant, because there is a shred of truth in them. LF *does* hate the Land, the Lords, the Earth...so very much. And the Ritual *will* hurt Foul. It will reduce his power by maybe 95%. It will cost him dozens of centuries of time, time he will be imprisoned under the Arch, without even the balm of his power to soothe his anger and frustration.

So when he talks to Kevin, this kernel of truth disguises his deceit. He knows the Ritual can't undo him. If there was the slightest chance of his own death, Foul would never enact it, because he values himself far more than he wants to destroy Kevin or the Land.

I'd love to see how he tricked poor Kevin into doing the Ritual. And how long did that Ritual take, anyway? Minutes? Hours? Maybe days?? Picture the two of them, under the mountain, locked into the Ritual...interacting? Chanting together? Kevin doing a part of the Lore, then turning it over to Foul, then Foul stepping back as Kevin completes another part of the no-doubt intricate and complex magic?

Remember this is not something Foul could do himself.

And think of the journey Kevin made to Kiril Threndor. He went alone, right? Foul was already there. What did Kevin think about, as he rode to his death? He knew he was going to die. The animals he passed were going to die. His horse under him was going to die. Pretty much every living thing in the Land was going to die..and he was the one who was going to be responsible!

I'd love to read a good fan-fic treatment of this subject!

p.s.

Spoiler

Were the Viles still under Mount Thunder when the Ritual was being enacted? Demondim? Surely ur-Viles. Wonder if they knew what was going on above them (Kiril Threndor is far above the Lost Deep, right)?

What about SHE? Did she have any knowledge of what those two (LF and Kevin) were doing up there? Would she care?

[Orlion]

Ok, now I remember at least partially what I was going to respond:
I believe Kevin would have done the Ritual whether he knew it wouldn't destroy Foul or not. That's the point of Dispair, it messes with you so much you end up with some strange notion that the best way to protect what you love is to destroy it. As an example, remember Trell's own Ritual. He was destroying the Stone of Revelstone because he loved it and didn't want it to fall to Satanheart's forces.