A reason to have chosen White Gold

[Lord Luof]

It breaks my heart to bear the lack of compassion here. I expected that people who had read of the land would be different, but again it is just people. I noticed how once I got into this tangent and subsequently backed down from it that the apportioned respect for my views diminished. Therefore I will bow my head and walk away from yet another hope to find myself just a little less trusting of people who call themselves open-minded & then ridicule everything you stand for & call it disagreement. There's no winning with such people. They've already made up their minds. And they are unafraid and very willing to cause another pain who might believe differently. I really wanted to like this place. Maybe there are others here who read what I wrote & liked what I said, but the most vocal were often those with the least desirable traits for any forum. I suspect there will be some heavy handed retort to my goodbye speech, why there was one in the first place, or some other attack on my character. I guess I'll say go ahead. Show yourselves. I won't be here to read it anyway. There is little time invested in my stay here. I still have hope that somewhere there is a forum where people are taken seriously, not mocked for what they say. But each time I find something as promising as a place like this my hope fades a little more as a result of the people I find there.

[danlo]

Therefore I will bow my head and walk away from yet another hope to find myself just a little less trusting of people who call themselves open-minded & then ridicule everything you stand for & call it disagreement.

Lord Luof I'm not ridiculing anything you've said--I'm also not necessarily disagreeing with anything you said. If you must go that's sad. I just reread everything you wrote in this topic and I really think that you are just basically asking guestions and not trying to push anything on anybody. You are obviously an extremely thoughtful and talented individual and it would be our loss to see you go. I don't think you know just how openmided alot of us are-we prob couldn't deal w/the chrons if we weren't. (Cynical, jaded, full of it yes..) I know you won't read this again but you/we have to develope a much tougher skin if we would attempt to pursue such matters to any satisfactory resolution.

[DarkReflection]

Well Danlo, I believe he was refering to me. I'm the reaqson why he's leaving. I don't know why however. I agree I didn't pull any punches because it's a subject that I too am very passionate about. But I on several occasions stated that this shouldnt be taken personally and any attack that was made was an attack on the topic. And as you stated Danlo, a thick skin is required to get through the crucible of debate.

I wish you well in whatever you decide to do Lord Louf be it leave or stay, your always welcome.

[variol son]

12 months ago I called myself a born-again christian. Now I am not sure what I am, but I do know that I love the God that I experienced, the God that I came to know, the God that I had a relationship with. Unfortunately, as I became more self-aware, and more conscious of what I was actually being taught in church, I discovered a different God, one that I found distasteful and repugnant, one that I wanted little if anything to do with.

I have found this thread very interesting and engaging, although I have been a little daunted about posting on it until now. Lord Luof's eminant departure has stung me into action however.

Lord Luof, I would like to encourage you not to leave the Watch. While I understand that you may have felt crushed (in my opinion understandably) by the replies to what you have said, I can also understand how what you wrote may have precipitated this. There were certain comments that I found a trifle offensive, yet I looked past them and was gratified to see a person of both faith and an open mind, two things that in my experience seldom meet, at least in church circles.

The christian members of our little family here only help add to the diversity that makes Kevin's watch so wonderful. Sure there are disruptions to the peace at times, but religion and christianity are contenious topics. Most people have quite strong opinions, and usually experiences to back these up. Yet in the end, the debate, even though it may get heated, comes from, I would hope, a desire to both share the way we see the world, and better understand the way others see the world.

Please don't take the comments personally. Danlo and DarkReflection have stated that they are not directed at you as a person, and I believe them. i'm sure that they respect your opinion and the strength of your faith as much as I do, and were simply sharing their views on this.

Finally, I am a gay man who goes to church. As such, I can understand both viewpoints, and I respect them both. However, neither should be reason for a Watcher to leave. I sincerely hope that you won't Lord Luof, as I am honoured to have shared the Watch with you.

I hope that that was meaningful and not just another page of gibberish blather.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[Fist and Faith]

The problem is that DarkReflection wouldn't ever spell his name right!! *grrrr*

[hierachy]

I'm a born again atheist!


Oh dam I'm gonna be hated for that statement *secures hard-hat and hides under some covers* 'Don't touch me!'

[danlo]

one of my fav bumperstickers: "I was born just fine the first time..."

[hierachy]

Dam straight!

[Furls Fire]

VS, that was beautiful.

Lord Luof, please don't go, as one of the ones who posted a reply to your earlier comments, I apologize if I came off as offensive. That was never my intent. And when I said that this forum wasn't the right one for your comments, I didn't mean the Watch itself. I meant the TC Forum, for it seemed that your early posts veered from him and onto the other. So, If my comment about moving it to the Think Tank or General Discussion Forums was misintrepreted as "We don't want you here." I sincerely and whole heartedly apologize to you.

If you wish, read the threads in the Hall of Gifts that I set up in memory of my brother. They are both at the top of the Forum "Some of my brothers writings" and "The Stephen C. McKinney Memorial Thread." You may find them uplifting and inspiring. My brother's faith and belief in God was intergal into the person he was. His words may give you peace.

As I said in one of my posts to you, my belief and faith run very deep. And, I could talk for hours about it. But, I also believe that what I feel, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone around me must feel the same way. That is the true essence of "open-mindedness". It is when one believes their way is the only true way and everyone must conform to that way, that we encounter "close-mindedness". Inside my heart, I believe there is a God, I believe in His Son, I believe in Angels, I believe in the Saints...But, I don't require that my friends believe the same thing. And I am open to their views, and their faiths, and their truths...even if it means they believe in nothing at all. So be it. Who am I to judge, who am I to point the finger and say.."you're wrong"? I am no one, I am just one voice in a chorus of hundreds of millions.

Okay, now I'm the going off into a tangent...

I really just want to apologize to Lord Luof if my comments offended him in any way...I hope you accept, Lord Luof.

Peace,
Furls

[Fist and Faith]

I'm a born again atheist!

Hm, I wonder if that should that be dead again atheist?

Extremely well said, Fire. Interesting that you and I feel the same way.

[DarkReflection]

My apologies Lord Luof and Fist, in my fervor I wasn't paying attention to some details.

[Fist and Faith]

[Furls Fire]

Extremely well said, Fire. Interesting that you and I feel the same way.

Interesting, but not surprising

[DarkReflection]

I think I missed somthing.

[W.B.]

Wow! I'm glad I only found this thread after it's basically died down. LOL!

My two cents: Donaldson was raised by Christian missionary parents, so I'm sure that worldview affected him, but I didn't get the feeling that he was actually writing about the Christian god (from the old or the new testement) in the Chronicles. Which isn't to say there weren't elements drawn from that experience/tradition that were mixed in with other stuff. A popuri, if you will. Lavender-scented with a hint of thyme.

As for the religious discussion, mad props to Fire's post on her approach to others' beliefs and her own faith. Well said!

[Furls Fire]

Thanks W.B.

[variol son]

Unfortunately, I think Lord Luof may have left anyway.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[Fist and Faith]

Watchagonnado? Leaving wasn't warranted. This forum, imo, should be geared more toward TCTC than Luof had in mind. But he went back to TCTC when it was brought up, and some of us are more than happy to go way off on tangents anyway. (Like me & Sky. And DR joined the club!) There was only one personal attack that I see, and one attack shouldn't drive you away. I think he was looking for a more Christian board. If you bring up your religion outside of your church, or a site dedicated to it, you have to expect opposing views. This was obiously why Biff is gone, since he hadn't even read TCTC!

[Furls Fire]

Well, I hope he didn't think I was attacking him

I'm not that kind of person at all

[Fist and Faith]

I wouldn't worry about it Fire. Nobody who reads your posts could possibly confuse you for that kind of person. Anyone who does is obviously spoiling for a fight. But I don't imagine you are why he left.