Discussion of entire novel: SPOILER WARNING

[TWDuke77]

First of all let me say that, like many of you, I've been a TC fan for over 20 years. The first two trilogies are my all-time favourite books bar none and as a bookstore manager for the last 15 years I've read a LOT of books. None come close.

Secondly, although in my initial euphoria I adored ROTE, three re-readings of it left me with the worrying conclusions that no, it doesn't match up to the originals and yes, I was having serious doubts as to the wisdom of SRD in resurrecting this brilliant series.

So I approached FR with some considerable trepidation.

I needn't have worried. FR is an utterly brilliant piece of work, possibly even better in places than the original two trilogies and certainly equal in quality in every single respect. The writing is detailed, rich and exciting beyond belief. Some of the passages are utterly breathtaking, particularly the final chapters in each part, 'Transformations' and 'Trust Yourself'. Some complained (myself included) that ROTE contained no real building towards fever pitch climaxes for which SRD is rightly famous - in FR there are no less than two and they are among the best that he has ever written.

FR also suppports ingeniously Donaldson's avowed refusal to ever write a 'Silmarillion' or History of the Land. Delving directly into the past as it does, FR answers more questions than anyone has a right to ask and by its inherent nature prevents the asking of any more. The answers are simply too slippery to grasp.

So there we are. I've deliberately avoided any specific details in case anyone stumbles across this thread by accident (or weak-willedness!) Get out now before you find out anything you really don't want to know!

For the rest of you, let's get this discussion going! Anyone gutted at yet another cliffhanger at the end of the book? And isn't it just a little like the end of ROTE? And what about Linden? Good Lordy, I think I'm in LOVE

[dlbpharmd]

weak-willedness

Yup, that's me. But, I managed to not read your spoiler tag. Thanks for your comments!

[native]

For the rest of you, let's get this discussion going!

I'd love to but I sort of promised my flat mate that I wouldn't go spoiler crazy till nearer publication day. Otherwise a lot of weak willed people (who I would otherwise be one of) will ruin their enjoyment of the book.

Having said that

Spoiler

I liked the cliff-hanger ending, though I'd worked out Linden's intentions a few chapters before.

[dlbpharmd]

must not read spoiler tag...... must not read spoiler tag.....

[native]

must not read spoiler tag...... must not read spoiler tag.....

btw how DO you moderate a forum you're not allowed to read?

[TWDuke77]

Spoiler

I also loved the cliffhanger ending - I'd be disappointed if there wasn't one - possibly even better for me cos I HADN'T worked it out! I'd love to have seen my face.....

I'm gonna stop now, or at least I'm going to try.... Can't wait till publication and then maybe some of you brighter sparks can enlighten this confused little mind of mine...

[dlbpharmd]

must not read spoiler tag...... must not read spoiler tag.....

btw how DO you moderate a forum you're not allowed to read?

Very carefully!

[Seareach]

must not read spoiler tag...... must not read spoiler tag.....

btw how DO you moderate a forum you're not allowed to read?

Very carefully!

Don't you worry...I'm reading it all...so behave, ok!

[Creator]

Spoiler

I didn't mind the cliff hanger ending.

but - REAL SPOILERS HERE!!

my only real complaint

Spoiler

I thought the Insequent where a little too much Deus ex Machina for my taste ... need to get out of an impossible situation ... out pops an Insequent!

and this was wonderful

Spoiler

I loved seeing the Giants back!!

I did like

Spoiler

How most of the 'unkowns' from Runes were answered. Who the Mahdoubt really was. What caused Kevin's Dirt. What happened when the Sandgorgons rended the Raver. etc.

Lastly, while I did not predict the ending. I was sure:

Spoiler

about Covenant and why his behaviour was like it was from the start.

[TWDuke77]

I apologise if this has been discussed before, but does anyone else think that possibly the single most epoch-making, electrifyingly important factor in the Final Chronicles so far is the

Spoiler

complete and utter absence of the Creator in his luvverly ochre robes? He didn't make his traditional appearance in Runes before Linden was summoned and still in FR he's missing the party. Does he not condone Linden this time? That wouldn't be good. Or is it worse - is he incapacitated somehow? I know he's never taken a particularly active role before, but it seems that this time the only beings with the kind of omniscient power he has are the plot-device-Insequent.

And yes,

Spoiler

it's terrific to have the Giants back - I just love that they can take on the skurj with the whole caamora trick updated for the Final Chronicles!

[Creator]

I think we will find that the Creator appeared to Jeremiah - and in fact is responsible for his powers. I would suggest that Jeremiah's lack of conscious volition is why the Creator could impact him without tearing apart the arch of time.

[native]

I think we will find that the Creator appeared to Jeremiah - and in fact is responsible for his powers. I would suggest that Jeremiah's lack of conscious volition is why the Creator could impact him without tearing apart the arch of time.

Spoiler

His powers do seem to be immune to the laws that bind everyone else, even Covenant and Linden. So you might well be on the money here.

[Borillar]

Argh! Why did I even click on this post!

[Ur Dead]

Must wait for the book...

I always wondered why critics and commentators get the books before the general public. Why can't they make their comments after the general release of a book (any book)

[dlbpharmd]

For the rest of you, let's get this discussion going!

I'd love to but I sort of promised my flat mate that I wouldn't go spoiler crazy till nearer publication day. Otherwise a lot of weak willed people (who I would otherwise be one of) will ruin their enjoyment of the book.

Having said that

Spoiler

I liked the cliff-hanger ending, though I'd worked out Linden's intentions a few chapters before.

So did I!

[iQuestor]

TWDuke said:

I needn't have worried. FR is an utterly brilliant piece of work, possibly even better in places than the original two trilogies and certainly equal in quality in every single respect. The writing is detailed, rich and exciting beyond belief. Some of the passages are utterly breathtaking, particularly the final chapters in each part, 'Transformations' and 'Trust Yourself'. Some complained (myself included) that ROTE contained no real building towards fever pitch climaxes for which SRD is rightly famous - in FR there are no less than two and they are among the best that he has ever written.

I could not agree more.

[lucimay]

TWDuke said:

I needn't have worried. FR is an utterly brilliant piece of work, possibly even better in places than the original two trilogies and certainly equal in quality in every single respect. The writing is detailed, rich and exciting beyond belief. Some of the passages are utterly breathtaking, particularly the final chapters in each part, 'Transformations' and 'Trust Yourself'. Some complained (myself included) that ROTE contained no real building towards fever pitch climaxes for which SRD is rightly famous - in FR there are no less than two and they are among the best that he has ever written.

I could not agree more.

me too.

[stormrider]

Er, should I be using spoiler tags...? [NO! dlbpharmd]

I am so relieved. After I read ROTE, I was worried that my visceral hatred of Linden had been the overarching cause for my animus toward the book. I was disturbed by the prospect that I might actually be petty enough to hate it simply because Linden was the only central character. After reading and loving FR, however, I realize that I just disliked ROTE in general. Even Linden couldn’t ruin this book for me, which must mean… it was excellent… and ROTE was just comparatively yuck.

Also, let me just say that my hatred of Linden is, for the most part, unaltered – it remains fierce and unbounded. Actually, I despised her more in part one of FR than ever before. The fact that she couldn’t stop crying for more than ten consecutive pages drove me insane – to the point where I literally made cruel, caustic comments directed at her out loud while I was reading – which I’ve never done before. I’m honestly amazed that she didn’t dehydrate herself with all that crying. And I’m reasonably certain that if she’d encountered a particularly lovely bush at some point during the first 250 pages, she’d have burst into tears and sobbed uncontrollably for two or three days. However, Linden’s ability to fight off the waterworks in part two was a welcome surprise. Thus, although I still detested her, I felt less inclined to make disgusted remarks.

Oh, and I love seeing Linden screw everything up royally. Her colossal failures amuse me, so ultimately, she pleased me immensely – in a twisted sort of way. So... kudos to the loathsome harlot.

[Aranion]

Since this thread has "SPOILER WARNING" built right into its name, I'm going to eschew using spoiler tags.


Ready?


You sure?



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I agree that, overall, FR is a spectacular return to form for SRD. ROTE was all set-up and positioning; without TC or anyone familiar with the ancient Land, much of the passion and energy of the tale was lacking (IMNSHO).

FR recovers from the "dry" tone and plotting of ROTE. While I'm not a regular poster and can't claim THOOLAH membership, I've pretty much always hated her character. FR almost converted me to a Linden liker. She's obviously grown since the Second Chronicles, and while human, she's stronger and more admirable. She's much more action-oriented in this story, and it makes for better reading.

However, I found joy at "Covenant"'s return turning to Ashes in my mouth as he displayed a total lack of Covenant qualities. I felt both relieved and cheated when we learned that "Covenant" was really Roger; relieved that a beloved character hadn't become such a bastard, and cheated that what we had been waiting for since 2004 wasn't really what we thought.

(Anyone else wondering about how the illusion was done? That kind of masqueing magic seems wholly unprecedented in the world of the Land.)

The scenes at Berek's camp were extremely well done - SRD was in his element, and was able to demonstrate that Earthpower was the overriding factor for the "niceness" of the people of the Land. (I thought it was all a brilliant piece of retconning, frankly; he was able to take elements initially meant to be purely archetypical and weave elements of history and "realism" around them.)

"Sons" may be my new favorite chapter of all the Covenent books (though "Soothtell" will be hard to displace). SRD not only gave the reader exactly what is wanted, but piles on the damage, pain and danger until it's almost excruciatingly delicious.

The return of Giants was almost enough to bring tears to my eyes. I loved the further glimpses into Giantish culture (Swordmainnir almost entirely female) and Longwrath is a peculiarly cool character. With the Giants, SRD's ability to create kickass names also comes to the fore: Rime Coldspray, Frostheart Grueburn.....dang, can that guy write or what? Rimespray's tearing the heart from the skurj was also exceedingly cool.

The last third of the book also had a not so subtle Ragnarokian feel to it; anyone else thinking (and worrying) that SRD is planning on destroying the Earth at the end of the series? We're getting a lot of hints (other than the series title ) that the End - or an End - is coming.

And the ending....both inevitable and unexpected (for me, at least). Like "Sons," I gaped at the "piling on" of legendary characters appearing, and loved the climactic building towards Covenant's resurrection. What's funny is that after I finished part 1 of FR, I was composing a complaint post for here basically bitching about the Last Chronicles having its titular character AWOL for the series! I'm hoping for TC POV in AATE, but even if we don't get that, I'll be very glad to have him back for real.

I also really liked how SRD "solved" a good majority of the mysteries from ROTE; I suppose I'm so used to the likes of Robert Jordan and George RR Martin either letting things hang for multiple books or never actually resolving them (*cough*Asmodean*cough*), that learning the origin and meaning of Kevin's Dirt, the identity of the Mahdoubt (whom I really thought was Kas's lover), etc. were almost shocking, though satisfying.

While ROTE remains a "have to" re-read in order to properly appreciate the series, I can already tell FR will be a joyful reread in the future.

OK, all done rambling - for now.

[A Gunslinger]

I f'n LOVED it.

There are 3 scenes that rank up there with some of his best:

Spoiler

1) The revelation beneath Skyweir

2) The death of the Mahdoubt/intro of the Harrow

3) The ressurection of TC

As for the direction of things: It is my opinion that Anele will draw a nearly lost memory of creation deep from the bowels of the earth, allowing Jeremiah to fashion a prison (A new Arch of time) that will hold the Depsiser forever.

It's not as though the worm will complete its destruction in a day or two...TC and Lindedn and trghe rest will have plenty of time to oppose all.