Vocabulary stretching

[The Theomach]

First totally new word that jumped out at me in FR: "aubade". This far into the Covenenat series "condign", "ambergris ", and "anodyne" no longer even merit a second thought, they simply elicit a brief smile as if seeing an old friend's picture in a yearbook, or hearing a snippet of a song from younger days. Started me thinking about the whole "Stephen Donaldson Ate My Dictionary" phenomenon.

First of all, does it irritate you, challenge you, make you feel stupid, or does your vocabulary match Donaldson's and this is the way you normally communicate? For me, I enjoy the challenge, and the exposure to new words. I don't always drop the book and look up an unfamiliar word right at the moment, if the meaning is clear enough from the context, but I will go to the dictionary later to confirm or expand what I think the word means.

Secondly, having read all of the "Gap" series, "Mordant's Need", the "Reave the Just" and Daughter of Regals" collections, and "The Man Who Fought Alone", I can't recall that he flexed such vocabularish muscles anywhere but with Covenant. Obviously it is a conscious choice on Donaldson's part. Does he feel it adds to the aura of fantasy? Is fantasy where he feels the most comfortable and free to use his full arsenal?

Curious to read your opinions...

-SS

[Linna Heartbooger]

SRD definitely likes the feel of certain words, and he uses them to build up themes. Some moments I like the "themed" words he throws in there, some moments I don't.

Like "anodyne"... was obvious enough in context, and I really liked the feel to it and it had to do with healing and all.. I enjoyed it. "Roynish" also SEEMED obvious enough in context - EXCEPT when I finally looked it up, I realized the image I was painting was potentially somewhat inaccurate. And "gelid" I didn't know for the whole book, (Illearth War and/or TPTP - but I think mostly the former) but yet it had a somewhat useful "feel" nonetheless (to some extent I treated "gelid" like an unknown variable each time I came across it... heh.) even though I had a pretty thorough misconception.

The story and the characters just carry me away so much (I desperately care about what happens to them when I'm reading! probably more than in almost any other series - arrgh!) that there's no way I'm going to stop and look up a word during my reading times. So for that reason, it often annoys me.

Also, I think that his use of Greek and Hebrew (i.e. names of the ravers *shiver*) is a somewhat interesting to show up.

You should look on SRD's site (gradual interviews) and do a search for the category of "vocabulary" or something. I saw at least one interesting thing about what he said about words (and "putting things into words") having an ability to "get through to him" in a way that lots of times other things can't.[/i]

[amanibhavam]

Yes, I also have the impression SRD sometimes uses the word for the impression/colour/image it creates and not for the exact meaning (but, not being a native English speaker, this may be an incorrect impression).

I still do not know what a "telic rubble" is... (or was it "thetic rubble"? either way...)

[Relayer]

He seems to use them for both reasons - sound/impression/image, and meaning. Although sometimes the meaning isn't what I'd have expected; he does seem to stretch their strict definitions sometimes. I almost never stop reading either... I can glean enough from the word and don't want to interrupt the flow of reading unless the meaning seems absolutely critical. I can get very lost in a book and like it that way

BTW, the Ravers' names are Sanskrit. Moksha, Turiya and Samadhi are words for states of enlightenment. For example, Moskha is "liberation from the cycle of death and rebirth and all of the suffering and limitation of worldly existence."

SRD has stated that the Ravers named themselves such because from their point of view, they do represent such enlightenment...

I think the only Hebrew word he uses is Elohim (but then I'm not very familiar w/ Hebrew).

[Linna Heartbooger]

BTW, the Ravers' names are Sanskrit. Moksha, Turiya and Samadhi are words for states of enlightenment. For example, Moskha is "liberation from the cycle of death and rebirth and all of the suffering and limitation of worldly existence."

Oh, cool... that's one set of Raver names that my hubbie (I think) didn't know. That factoid RE Donaldson's "naming of them" is also intersting.

There are only three Ravers, ancient brothers who each have many names but are commonly called turiya Herem, samadhi Sheol, and moksha Jehannum.

Herem, for example, I understand to mean "devoted to destruction"... and Sheol seems to be a sorta "dark and lonely [afterlife] place that one goes down to" word. (but I don't know Hebrew! So that's me relying on context and/or taking other people's word for it!)

I think there's another set of three Raver names rattling around that includes "Gehenna" and two other Greek words.

[Relayer]

Oh yea! I always forget about the names the people of the Land gave to them... they are Hebrew-ish

There's also the various "epithets" they're given: Satansfist, Fleshharrower (a personal favorite ), etc. but those aren't the ones you meant.

Runes spoiler (names only):

Spoiler

Also, SRD talks about naming the Ramen in Runes- Mahrtiir, Bhapa, Saha - from another Hindu language called Maranthi. (In the 1st Chrons, they're Gay, Rue, Lithe, etc.)

[The Dreaming]

Has anyone counted the number of times "Puissance" appears in FR? It's got to be at least in the 15-20 range.

[Linna Heartbooger]

Spoiler

Has anyone counted the number of times "Puissance" appears in FR? It's got to be at least in the 15-20 range.

Huh. That actually tells me something about FR that I didn't know. But I'm not surprised. And I really don't mind spoilers...

(I've actually read chapter 1 and halfway through chapter 2 on SRD's site; yet I don't intend to read the book in its entirety till 2013. We'll see how that goes.)

[Linna Heartbooger]

Oh yea! I always forget about the names the people of the Land gave to them... they are Hebrew-ish

There's also the various "epithets" they're given: Satansfist, Fleshharrower (a personal favorite ), etc. but those aren't the ones you meant.

*nod* which brings up an interesting point... Names. Which names are the "most suiting" or "most ordinate"? The Sanskrit ones are probably the ones by which the Ravers define themselves - and therefore the most suitable names to their internal perspective, and names which tell us much about them when we take that into account.

But in some ways, from a Raver-external perspective, I see the Hebrew ones as (somewhat) more suiting to "the essence of who they are." (Maybe someone can fish up the three Greek ones for me?)

And yeah, I see "Satansfist," "Fleshharrower," etc. as some of the most "high-level" (and therefore least personal) of the Ravers' names - I think those names are "names suiting to the Ravers as the beings who inhabit/inhabited the giantish triplets"?

In some ways... it seems to me that they earned those names by their actions, and those names did not suit them before they possessed the three giants. (except insofar as they were the sort of beings who would make the evil decision to possess the giantish triplets and wreak the havoc that they wreaked while "piloting" those bodies.)

[amanibhavam]

I honestly don't know what Greek names you are referring to. There were the Sanskrit/Hebrew pairs turiya Herem, samadhi Sheol, moksha Jehannum. Apart from these and the Landish epiteths (Fleshharrower, Kinslaughterer, Satansfist) I do not think any other names appeared in the first seven volumes.

[iQuestor]

Well, SatansFist and FleshHarrower and KinSlaughterer are all names in the Giantish tradition -- Like Saltheart, SparLimb, WavenHair.

SO these names are for the Giant-Embodies ravers; as they took the triplets, they took Giantish names for themselves to further cause despair; giants were thought to be beyond a raver's ability to possess, and indeed it took the might of the illearth stone to accomplish it.

[Rocksister]

I just finished reading FR last night. I noticed a brand spanking new word, actually one of many: ensorcelled. It's used many times in FR, but I never saw it in the other seven books. You can easily get the meaning from the context. There are others, but I don't have the book here where I am at, so I don't remember them. SRD is a linguistic genius, IMHO, and I enjoy the heck out of learning new words. Kind of a hobby of mine, but my vocabulary is still impoverished next to his. I remember one word in the second chrons that haunts me to this day, and I can find nowhere a meaning for it: inhermeneuticable. Pitchwife said it to Linden I think. Wow what a mouthful. Anyone know the meaning of that one? It's only used once.

[iQuestor]

I just finished reading FR last night. I noticed a brand spanking new word, actually one of many: ensorcelled. It's used many times in FR, but I never saw it in the other seven books. You can easily get the meaning from the context. There are others, but I don't have the book here where I am at, so I don't remember them. SRD is a linguistic genius, IMHO, and I enjoy the heck out of learning new words. Kind of a hobby of mine, but my vocabulary is still impoverished next to his. I remember one word in the second chrons that haunts me to this day, and I can find nowhere a meaning for it: inhermeneuticable. Pitchwife said it to Linden I think. Wow what a mouthful. Anyone know the meaning of that one? It's only used once.

I asked donaldson about this last year. You can also find it in one of the forums. Hang on, let me find the quote:

*back*

OK, its Unhermeneuticable, not in-. Here is the post:

Bob Meads: Mr Donaldson,

I have always been facinated by the obscure words you use in TC, and am currently reading "The One Tree". I have come across a word that the definition that Merriam-Webster gives is not satisfactory. That word is "unhermeneuticable". The word is uttered by PitchWife, about Findail the Appointed (page 366 , paperback).

The word itself doesn't come up on Merriam Webster's site. The closest is 'hermeneutics' which means: the study of the methodological principles of interpretation (as of the Bible).

this doesnt seem to fit the context, as Pitchwife relates:

"He perceives some unhermeneuticable peril --"

Can you tell me what it meant in this context?

Have you ever made up new words? <grin>

thanks!!

Bob

SRD replies:

OK, I made up "unhermeneuticable". <sigh> And I'll admit that it does sound unlikely, coming from Pitchwife. I just couldn't resist the temptation: words like that are too much fun.

But its implied meaning extrapolates rather nicely, I think, from "hermeneutics". Pitchwife refers to a "peril" which defies "the methodological principles of [spiritual or religious] interpretation." That fits the themes of the story, if not the characteristic rhetoric of the Giants. And I do occasionally have a good reason for underscoring those themes.

(07/16/2006)

edit: here is a link to another thread where it is addressed by many people: kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 237#508237

the search function on KW turns up a few others.

[CorruptionWearsManyFaces]

inhermeneuticable

unable to be interpreted--I think

[dlbpharmd]

I just finished reading FR last night. I noticed a brand spanking new word, actually one of many: ensorcelled. It's used many times in FR, but I never saw it in the other seven books.

ensorcelled - to enchant, bewitch.

I've only heard this word one other time, in a West Wing episode.