ANDELAIN {SPOILER}

[Prover of Life]

When the Dead appear in Andelain, it is stated they were commanded not to speak. Linden assumes Covenant was behind this.

However, when Covenant arrives, he motions that he too cannot speak to her.

Who gave this command?

[Aleksandr]

It's possible that TC did, and he's just obeying his own command.

In regards to Andelain I'm wondering how the Wraiths became powerful enough to protect the place. In the 1st Chronicles they were helpless before the Ur-Viles, and in the 2nd Chronicles they had no power either (that we knew of). Here in the 3rd Chronicles they don't just bar Longwrath, but evidently they can keep out Roger, the Scurge, Esmer even Kastenessen himself.

[native]

It's possible that TC did, and he's just obeying his own command.

In regards to Andelain I'm wondering how the Wraiths became powerful enough to protect the place. In the 1st Chronicles they were helpless before the Ur-Viles, and in the 2nd Chronicles they had no power either (that we knew of). Here in the 3rd Chronicles they don't just bar Longwrath, but evidently they can keep out Roger, the Scurge, Esmer even Kastenessen himself.

This is my major gripe with FR - too much Deus Ex Machina, too much convenient decision making by the author to serve ultra high speed pacing, too much exposition papering over the cracks. I feel that the author might not always have been as rigorous as he has been in the past in planning out the plot and character in great detail.

Not that it wasn't a great read, but it's been a few weeks now and it hasn't grown in my memory the way other Covenant books have. I think that's why.

[Damelon]

To me, it read that it was either TC or the High Lords who commanded the silence.

[iQuestor]

Actually, the power of the Krill of Loric was ascribed the power that allowed the wraiths to resist the mad giant, and that which kept out roger and kastenessan. It lay in the hills protecting the whole region.


my question now is, if it leaves with Covenant and Linden, then wha tprotects Andelain?

[Prover of Life]

I think the protection will disappear. The wraiths were singing of their time to die.

I'm not sure TC was the cause of silence. Have to think about it some more.

Another question.... is TC still protecting the Arch?

Gonna be a long 3 yrs.

[Aleksandr]

OK, Maybe I should read it again. I was so focused on Linden and the possibility that she was about to do something apocalyptic that I may have let some details slip by me.
I am not opposed to the concept that the Wraiths have learned to wield power. They hung out with Caer Caveral for centuries after all. I do wish that something had been said about it though, even if Linden would not have been as aware of the Wraiths' history as we are.

[tonyz]

We do learn at the end of WGW that the Dead can be commanded... one wonders if perhaps Foul had a hand in it? (Can the Dead command other Dead that way?)

The fast pacing was rather annoying (and the occasional tendency to have things like "they said X" instead of direct dialogue, which is a lot more powerful), but the Dead don't seem to have the same impact that they did in previous books. They're just pale specters of their former selves, charged with passion and meaning for the people they encountered. (Linden wasn't blind to, say, Kevin Landwaster's power in WGW; here she doesn't seem to see them with at all the same force of impact... is the blindness in her, or was Donaldson just assuming that we'd carry over the emotional charge from the last trilogy, or have the Dead really changed fundamentally?)

[jwaneeta]

The Creator Himself? Doesn't he have a dog in this fight?

[emotional leper]

I think it was TC's command.

Remember, though he is one of the Dead at the time, he's also the Timewarden -- Part of the Keystone of the Arch of Time. He is the Wild Magic.

I think TC as the Timewarden issued the order not to speak to the Dead. And then when he was compelled forward by the summoning of Elena and Caer-Caveral, he had to obey his own injunction.

Either that, or that damned meddling Infelice ordered the Dead not to speak.

[King Elessar 8]

I think it was TC's command.

Remember, though he is one of the Dead at the time, he's also the Timewarden -- Part of the Keystone of the Arch of Time. He is the Wild Magic.

I think TC as the Timewarden issued the order not to speak to the Dead. And then when he was compelled forward by the summoning of Elena and Caer-Caveral, he had to obey his own injunction.

Either that, or that damned meddling Infelice ordered the Dead not to speak.

I don't think it was Infelice - if the Dead had been able to speak, Linden might have turned aside from her purpose, which Infelice presumably wanted.

I suspect there was some Law heretofore unmentioned that compelled the Dead to silence.

[emotional leper]

I think it was TC's command.

Remember, though he is one of the Dead at the time, he's also the Timewarden -- Part of the Keystone of the Arch of Time. He is the Wild Magic.

I think TC as the Timewarden issued the order not to speak to the Dead. And then when he was compelled forward by the summoning of Elena and Caer-Caveral, he had to obey his own injunction.

Either that, or that damned meddling Infelice ordered the Dead not to speak.

I don't think it was Infelice - if the Dead had been able to speak, Linden might have turned aside from her purpose, which Infelice presumably wanted.

I suspect there was some Law heretofore unmentioned that compelled the Dead to silence.

I just don't trust the Elohim.

And it could have been the Necessity of Freedom that bound the tongues of the dead.

[dlbpharmd]

I think it was TC's command.

Remember, though he is one of the Dead at the time, he's also the Timewarden -- Part of the Keystone of the Arch of Time. He is the Wild Magic.

I think TC as the Timewarden issued the order not to speak to the Dead. And then when he was compelled forward by the summoning of Elena and Caer-Caveral, he had to obey his own injunction.

Either that, or that damned meddling Infelice ordered the Dead not to speak.

I don't think it was Infelice - if the Dead had been able to speak, Linden might have turned aside from her purpose, which Infelice presumably wanted.

I suspect there was some Law heretofore unmentioned that compelled the Dead to silence.

I think it WAS Infelice who gave the command to be silent, but why do you think Infelice wanted Linden's purpose to succeed. It seemed to me to be just the opposite.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I think it was made pretty clear in the Wounded Land why the Dead were limited in speaking to the Living.
I think Mhoram or the Forestal explained why.
It goes hand in hand with what SRD is pounding into out heads in this series: Unearned knowledge is DANGEROUS.
So unless I misread that part I think it was TC himself that refused to speak to Linden.
If he had told her or advised her what to do I think it would have been catastrophic.

[Vain19]

I don't think it was Covenant. If he had been the one that commanded silence, surely he would would have disregarded it to say something like "Don't do it Linden! You dumbass!!"

[Stutty]

I don't think it was TC either. Wasn't it back at Glimmermere that Anele channeled TC, and TC said something like "If I even speak his name he'll stop me?" At the time I thought it was Kastenessen, but now I'm not so sure. And even if I'm remembering that correctly, it may have nothing to do with "the Dead."

I have nothing to back it up, but I distinctly got the impression that poor dead Kevin had issued the gag order in Andelain.

stutt

[Aranion]

I'll have to reread the chapter, but I think Infelice is the best candidate for commanding the Dead to silence. From the information we have, no one else has less contradictory motives.

[Ur Dead]

/Methink there can be another or a Law in the cookie dough.

Somebody new but not the Creator. Maybe someone who is a direct tool of the Creator. Or a Law of the land that forbids certain knowlege to be known before an act can be played.

Because of what went in Andelain, you had two powers there plus the others that could have prevented Linden from resurrecting TC and rouse the Worm so it can munch every Elohim. That is nothing to sneeze at.

But if there isn't a solution, why did Wildwood carve the Runes into the staff? Those runes were the key for Linden to bring back TC.

It may be a bad situration right now, but it may be a revelant solution.

It gonna be a long three years.

[SoulBiter]

And it could have been the Necessity of Freedom that bound the tongues of the dead.

Thats what Im thinking. I dont think they were forced by anything other than that.

And I do think there is another law involved... As Elena eluded to when she talked to Covenant in Andelain in TWL.

"Ah, beloved," Elena replied quickly, in the clear irrefusable voice which he remembered with such anguish, "this is not a time for grief. Our hearts are glad to behold you here. We have not come to cause you pain, but to bless you with our love. And to give you gifts, as the Law permits."

Also Mhoram eluded to a risk in what is said:

"One word more," Mhoram said to Covenant. "This must be spoken, though I risk much in saying it.

What risk? I think the risk in either breaking a law or perhaps taking away the necessity of Freedom from someone outside the land so they dont become a 'tool'.

[emotional leper]

And of course, the Elohim didn't stop Linden from doing what she did because they still hoped that the Sun-Sage would make the right choice. So the lazy asses of the Elohim would not need to be lifted off the couch.