Ongoing FR thoughts--ch3 [spoilers]

Post by **Zarathustra** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:08 pm

[There will be spoilers here.]

Well, I'm up to chapter three. Page 60 or so. My thoughts on the first two chapters are in older threads, so I'll start here. Feel free to join in and give first impressions while you go. But start a new chapter thread if you want to talk about what's coming up next, and don't spoil anything past chapter three here.

After two disappointing chapters, I thought 3 did nothing but bog down immediately with big meaty chunks of Mahrtiir- and Stave-speak [pages 43-49, esp. 46-47]. It seems like this was merely SRD's attempt to make sure we "understood" (ha!) all the possible threats facing--or not facing--our characters: Kastenessen, the skurj, maybe Jeremiah, maybe Covenant, maybe Esmer, maybe fire lions, maybe ur-viles, maybe something else . . . oh brother. Do we really need all this misdirection? Does every single facet have to be ambiguous? What's wrong with a clear-cut threat? Yes, it's supposed to be a mystery. But there's a difference between a mystery and a mess.

Ok, on to the Covenant/Jeremiah/Linden scene. This finally got good. Right here. This is by far the best scene in the book, the first one that I couldn't put down. Drunk Covenant is cool. I want some springwine. Jeremiah just got interesting.

Well, I'm off to read the rest of chapter 3. Let me know what you guys think as you go! This can be a sort of informal dissection.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:34 pm

I'd have to go back and read the Marhtiir and Stave portions that you're referring to, but I don't recall feeling "bogged down." Of course, I may be a bit biased, since I tend to focus on dialogue and skim long sections of non-dialogue prose.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:16 pm

I don't mind long bits of dialogue. The C/J/L scene immediately following was the best one so far. Wow, lots of revelations! Now we understand why the Demondim were waiting to attack (they need Anele's presence to get Kastenessen's instructions). We now understand where Jeremiah was the whole time he was "absent" in the real world. His powers were explained, a little. And there's definitely something wrong with Covenant, the way he "threatens" Linden with J's safety in order to convince her to give up the ring. And much, much more. Anyone else still reading the early chapters?

Post by **Cameraman Jenn** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:25 pm

Wait just a minute here Mr. Malik. Are you saying that FR has grabbed you? That you are finally enthralled? You have seen the light? You have ascended into the tome of brilliance that is FR?

Post by **Zarathustra** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:39 pm

Yes, it grabbed me with that scene. And then it bogged right back down again with Linden and her friends. There's too much foreplay in this book. Why does every conversation have to have so much build-up and intentional delay? Why does Linden have to constantly build up her courage just to hear her friends speak? We are 80 pages into this book. It is definitely time to speed things up.

Post by **SoulBiter** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:08 pm

WOW.. I finished the book yesterday and I dont remember being bogged down at any time. Matter of fact I considered this book very fast paced.

Post by **Aranion** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:46 pm

SoulBiter wrote:WOW.. I finished the book yesterday and I dont remember being bogged down at any time. Matter of fact I considered this book very fast paced.

Some interesting comparisons to make are the earlier Chronicles to the Last, and other modern fantasy epics compared to any of the Chronicles. My last reread of the Second Chronicles really impressed upon me how little (if any) wasted text there is; SRD really keeps things moving along, even in the "slow" parts. After reading a lot of Jordan, Martin and Williams, the pace of the Second Chronicles seemed almost breakneck, though in a very good way.

I would say that compared to himself, SRD has increased the pace as well. A lot more happens, and happens more quickly, in the Last Chronicles compared to similar amounts of text earlier.

Post by **Billy G.** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:36 pm

Fast or slow paced as FR was, I was stunned at how quickly I finished it. (4 days)

(Well, I did call in sick on Friday.)

Post by **Zarathustra** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:00 pm

Well, I'm still on page 90. I certainly don't feel like this is moving quickly at all. So far, in 4 chapters absolutely nothing has happened. We've had a conversation with Covenant, a conversation with Marhtiir, a dip in Glimmermere, a conversation with Esmer, a conversation with Marhtiir and Stave, a conversation with Covenant and Jeremiah, and then another conversation with Marhtiir, Anele, Pahni, Bapha Liand, and Stave. Linden took a nap. Then another nap. She snacked a little. And then she met her friends again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this horrible. But fast paced? You've got to be kidding me. By this time in Runes, Linden had already confronted Roger, stumbled upon a murder scene, discovered her son kidnapped, found her baby sitter murdered, endured a climactic scene of lightning, gunfights, and Foul's Despite, and then got translated into the Land with a flurry of bullets. She gets treated to a crazy, Raver-induced Joan vision, talks to Lord Foul, and then lands on Kevin's Watch. And then she encountered her first caesure, Kevin's Dirt, and meets the son of Sunder and Hollian.

And that's for the "slow paced" Runes. The book that supposedly "sets the stage."

Maybe this book picks up the pace. But can those of you who have already finished it remember one single action in the first 4 chapters?

Post by **tonyz** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:35 pm

No.

The Prologue to RotE was well-done. Everything since then has pretty much felt like filler.

Post by **SoulBiter** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:20 pm

Malik23 wrote:Well, I'm still on page 90. I certainly don't feel like this is moving quickly at all. So far, in 4 chapters absolutely nothing has happened. We've had a conversation with Covenant, a conversation with Marhtiir, a dip in Glimmermere, a conversation with Esmer, a conversation with Marhtiir and Stave, a conversation with Covenant and Jeremiah, and then another conversation with Marhtiir, Anele, Pahni, Bapha Liand, and Stave. Linden took a nap. Then another nap. She snacked a little. And then she met her friends again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this horrible. But fast paced? You've got to be kidding me. By this time in Runes, Linden had already confronted Roger, stumbled upon a murder scene, discovered her son kidnapped, found her baby sitter murdered, endured a climactic scene of lightning, gunfights, and Foul's Despite, and then got translated into the Land with a flurry of bullets. She gets treated to a crazy, Raver-induced Joan vision, talks to Lord Foul, and then lands on Kevin's Watch. And then she encountered her first caesure, Kevin's Dirt, and meets the son of Sunder and Hollian.

And that's for the "slow paced" Runes. The book that supposedly "sets the stage."

Maybe this book picks up the pace. But can those of you who have already finished it remember one single action in the first 4 chapters?

Action doesnt necessarily equal pace. There was alot going on in those chapters. Its like .... The chapters that TC was first entering Revelstone in LFB. Was there alot of action.. Nope but it was fairly fast paced because of the plot development that was going on.

Post by **Usivius** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:23 pm

I will say this breif thing in my reading (up to Ch. 4 now)... No matter what you feel about the way characters are going, plot is driven, or about any of your favourites ... SRD writing is amazing. He compells with words like no other author I know. To the bland reader, he may seen slow (a "complaint" I have heard among many <sigh>), but even in discussions between two characters, SRD keeps me rivited to the pages.

!!!

Love it!!!

Post by **MrKABC** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:50 am

Malik23 wrote:Well, I'm still on page 90. I certainly don't feel like this is moving quickly at all. So far, in 4 chapters absolutely nothing has happened. We've had a conversation with Covenant, a conversation with Marhtiir, a dip in Glimmermere, a conversation with Esmer, a conversation with Marhtiir and Stave, a conversation with Covenant and Jeremiah, and then another conversation with Marhtiir, Anele, Pahni, Bapha Liand, and Stave. Linden took a nap. Then another nap. She snacked a little. And then she met her friends again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this horrible. But fast paced? You've got to be kidding me. By this time in Runes, Linden had already confronted Roger, stumbled upon a murder scene, discovered her son kidnapped, found her baby sitter murdered, endured a climactic scene of lightning, gunfights, and Foul's Despite, and then got translated into the Land with a flurry of bullets. She gets treated to a crazy, Raver-induced Joan vision, talks to Lord Foul, and then lands on Kevin's Watch. And then she encountered her first caesure, Kevin's Dirt, and meets the son of Sunder and Hollian.

And that's for the "slow paced" Runes. The book that supposedly "sets the stage."

Maybe this book picks up the pace. But can those of you who have already finished it remember one single action in the first 4 chapters?

You are right, the beginning is slow. But it picks up! Hoo boy does it pick up! Give it a chance, you'll see. You WON'T be disappointed!!!

Post by **Seareach** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:30 am

Malik...just a thought but do you think that pulling it apart as you go and posting here how much you don't like it every chapter might actually put you in the frame of mind where you're not going to like it? Just a though.

That said, in my opinion it definitely takes a few chapters to get into the swing of things.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:07 pm

Seareach wrote:Malik...just a thought but do you think that pulling it apart as you go and posting here how much you don't like it every chapter might actually put you in the frame of mind where you're not going to like it? Just a though.

That said, in my opinion it definitely takes a few chapters to get into the swing of things.

No, I don't see how my not liking it causes me to not like it. I want to like it. This is my favorite author.

I'm up to page 105 now. I'm reading very slowly. Maybe that's the problem. I'm sure it will get better, as everyone has already said. Just comparing it to the first 100 pages of any other book SRD has ever written, it's coming up way short.

And I'm kind of bummed that I read another thread which I thought would be safe, since the first poster admitted to only being on page 140, and in the middle of a discussion about swear words, I learned that

Spoiler

Covenant isn't really Covenant.

So now that's spoiled. But I guess it's my own fault. I shouldn't have assumed that that thread was safe, I guess. But now I have even less reason to want to keep reading. That revelation is a major disappointment.

If I'm becoming a downer in this discussion, I apologize. Feel free to ignore my posts. I promise to write some positive stuff when I get to it.

Post by **Romeo** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:25 pm

My only question is this - won't the pony get eaten when it makes it to the front of the snake? Poor pony!

Post by **Zarathustra** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:34 pm

Romeo wrote:My only question is this - won't the pony get eaten when it makes it to the front of the snake? Poor pony!

Great, Romeo, now you've spoiled that, too.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:02 pm

Malik23 wrote:Why does Linden have to constantly build up her courage just to hear her friends speak?

Mother of God, YES!! It never freakin' ends!!!

Post by **lurch** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:04 pm

no kiddin,,Seems to me the reader has to pick up on Linden's intuitiveness,,she knows there is a cost to everything,,She knows that she doesn't know what the cost will be, but she knows it will cost, So yes, Linden trying to get as much info , is her simply trying to slow the decision making process down to her cognitive processing abilities. When she does " move", like a spring unbound, things happen fast. Again, the contrasts set up by the author are at every level and every weir..She senses wrong and right and pursues the Truth of each.

Now,,is this a reflection of a Oriental perspective, the ever intertwined nature of Yin and Yang? Is this polarized reality,, continuous confliction and the pursuit of a higher Truth,,a Donaldson exposition of his personal Surreal? I find it amazing how close , or in common, the two " perspectives" are .