Worm at the End of the World

[Stutty]

It's been way way too long, will someone please refresh my memory?

Once the worm is roused does it devour the world? I seem to remember (must check as soon as I get home) that one of the characters said the Elohym would be eaten, not the world? Was it just a late night?

stutt

[Ur Dead]

Maybe the worm wants a in-between sleep snack.

[Starkin]

As I recall the Worm has been sleeping for eons; meanwhile the Earth grew around it. When awoken (is that a word?) the Worm will shrug off the Earth like a blanket and then continue on through the universe, eating the stars.

Apparently it'll be veeerrry hungry when it wakes up.

[Aleksandr]

Re: I seem to remember (must check as soon as I get home) that one of the characters said the Elohym would be eaten, not the world?

That was Infelice. I take it as typical Elohim self-centeredness. She's just upset that the Elohim will be devoured and doesn't care about anyone else.

[emotional leper]

Re: I seem to remember (must check as soon as I get home) that one of the characters said the Elohym would be eaten, not the world?

That was Infelice. I take it as typical Elohim self-centeredness. She's just upset that the Elohim will be devoured and doesn't care about anyone else.

Death is one of those things that tends to make almost everyone self-centered. Particularly when it's your own death.

[Fullmetal660]

Yes "awoken" is a word.

e.g.

"I was awoken in the middle of the night by a terrible noise"

[dmMike7]

i don't think the worm is going to destroy everything. think of it this way, the elohim say they are the heart of the earth, they fear the destruction of the earth, so they fear their own destruction (obvious since they are so self-centered). Infelice says at the end of FR that "Now every Elohim will be devoured". so maybe the worm doesn't destroy the earth, but the Elohim, which the Elohim consider the Earth. if the Elohim created the knowledge of the worm (since they know everything) they could have manipulated the knowledge so that everyone beleive the destruction of the earth comes with the rousing of the worm. and if the earth ends when the worm wakes up, why doesn't it all end as soon as the worm wakes at the end of FR.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

i don't think the worm is going to destroy everything. think of it this way, the elohim say they are the heart of the earth, they fear the destruction of the earth, so they fear their own destruction (obvious since they are so self-centered). Infelice says at the end of FR that "Now every Elohim will be devoured". so maybe the worm doesn't destroy the earth, but the Elohim, which the Elohim consider the Earth. if the Elohim created the knowledge of the worm (since they know everything) they could have manipulated the knowledge so that everyone beleive the destruction of the earth comes with the rousing of the worm. and if the earth ends when the worm wakes up, why doesn't it all end as soon as the worm wakes at the end of FR.

Nobody answered this question? Because the worm (also spelled würm or wyrd) is so huge it can't rouse itself up quickly, at least not from our tinier point of view. From our perspective, the worm takes a long, long time to do anything.

[wayfriend]

Good point, it may be a while before the Worm does anything worth worrying about.

And, as I think I said above, it seems to me that if the Worm devours the Elohim, that may put it back into slumber, and so save the Earth.

[Krazy Kat]

what happens to the elohim once they are devoured by the worm?
will they die, or will they find their way out through fissures and caves, etc...?

dmmike7 made some good points the elohim being self-centered does this mean they are the axis of the earth?

i'm trying to do an avatar using the Yes album Fragile cover. they are my impression of the elohim.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I was thinking.....if the Elohim are vain (small "v" but note the irony) self serving liars......what if the Worm is not quite what they have told us it is?
What if it is truly a massive-sleeping-Elohim-devouring beast but not something upon the whole world is fashioned.

What if it is massive beyond comprehension but still small enough to exist and roam upon and beneath the earth feasting on any Elohim it can find?
What if the Skurji are the Worm's children?

I suspect though that it's nothing like what the Elohim have described it to be.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Good point, it may be a while before the Worm does anything worth worrying about.

And, as I think I said above, it seems to me that if the Worm devours the Elohim, that may put it back into slumber, and so save the Earth.

No. The very title of the last book of the Last Chronicles signals the end of everything, except Time. There won't be anything left but the Arch - which is invisible to us mortals - the freezing cold of the void, and darkness. Everything dies. But in so doing, it makes way for new life, a new earth, hopefully without LF in it. Our only chance lies in the hope that if the Worm can devour Elohim then it can devour him too.

[rdhopeca]

Good point, it may be a while before the Worm does anything worth worrying about.

And, as I think I said above, it seems to me that if the Worm devours the Elohim, that may put it back into slumber, and so save the Earth.

No. The very title of the last book of the Last Chronicles signals the end of everything, except Time. There won't be anything left but the Arch - which is invisible to us mortals - the freezing cold of space, and darkness. Everything dies. But in so doing, it makes way for new life, a new earth, hopefully without LF in it. If the Worm can devour Elohim then it can devour him too.

I am not sure it is safe to assume that something the Creator created to devour beings of Earthpower would have any effect on Lord Foul directly.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Good point, it may be a while before the Worm does anything worth worrying about.

And, as I think I said above, it seems to me that if the Worm devours the Elohim, that may put it back into slumber, and so save the Earth.

No. The very title of the last book of the Last Chronicles signals the end of everything, except Time. There won't be anything left but the Arch - which is invisible to us mortals - the freezing cold of space, and darkness. Everything dies. But in so doing, it makes way for new life, a new earth, hopefully without LF in it. If the Worm can devour Elohim then it can devour him too.

I am not sure it is safe to assume that something the Creator created to devour beings of Earthpower would have any effect on Lord Foul directly.

I don't recall the Creator creating the Worm. Those beings are found in two very different legends. Am I not right? Here is part of the legend of the Creator as told by Tamarantha in LFB:

This the elder legends tell us: into the infinity before Time was made came the Creator like a worker into his workshop. And since it is the nature of creating to desire perfection, the Creator devoted all himself to the task. First he built the arch of Time, so that his creation would have a place in which to beard for the keystone of that arch he forged the wild magic, so that Time would be able to resist chaos and endure. Then within the arch he formed the Earth. For ages he labored, formed and unformed, trialed and tested and rejected and trialed and tested again, so that when he was done his creation would have no cause to reproach him. And when the Earth was fair to his eye, he gave birth to the inhabitants of the Earth, beings to act out in their lives his reach for perfection-and he did not neglect to give them the means to strive for perfection themselves. When he was done, he was proud as only those who create can be.

In that legend, there is no mention of the Creator creating a Worm. The Worm was never mentioned until Pitchwife in TOT. I'm going to quote him at length here:

"It is said among the Elohim, whose knowledge is wonderous, and difficult of contradiction"-Pitchwife conveyed a chortle of personal amusement-"that in the ancient and eternal youth of the cosmos, long ere the Earth came to occupy its place, the stars were as thick as sand throughout all the heavens. Where now we see multitudes of bright beings were formerly multitudes of multitudes, so that the cosmos was an ocean of stars from shore to shore, and the great depth of their present solitude was unknown to them-a sorrow which they could not have comprehended. They were the living peoples of the heavens, as unlike to us as gods. Grand and warm in their bright loveliness, they danced to music of their own making and were content."

"But far away across the heavens lived a being of another kind. The Worm. For ages it slumbered in peace-but when it awakened, as it awakens at the dawn of each new eon, it was afflicted with a ravenous hunger. Every creation contains destruction, as life contains death, and the Worm was destruction. Driven by its immense lust, it began to devour stars.

"Perhaps this Worm was not large among the stars, but its emptiness was large beyond measure, and it roamed the heavens, consuming whole seas of brightness, cutting great swaths of loneliness across the firmament. Writhing along the ages, avid and insatiable, it fed on all that lay within its reach, until the heavens became as sparsely peopled as a desert."

"Yet the devoured stars were beings as unlike to us as gods, and no Worm or doom could consume their power without cost. Having fed hugely, the Worm became listless and gravid. Though it could not sleep, for the eon's end of its slumber had not come, it felt a whelming desire for rest. Therefore it curled its tail about itself and sank into quiescence.
"And while the Worm rested, the power of the stars wrought within it. From its skin grew excrescences of stone and soil, water and air, and these growths multiplied upon themselves and multiplied until the very Earth beneath our feet took form. Still the power of the stars wrought, but now it gave shape to the surface of the Earth, forging the seas and the land. And then was brought forth life upon the Earth. Thus were born all the peoples of the Earth, the beasts of the land, the creatures of the deep-all the forests and greenswards from pole to pole. And thus from destruction came forth creation, as death gives rise to life.

So you see, there is one legend for each being. And I also take from Pitchwife's (brief for a Giant) retelling of the Worm legend that creation also gives rise to destruction, and death makes way for new life. This idea was also mentioned in the GI.

I don't believe that there are any conditions under which life can exist without death.

He also mentioned a similar concept in one of his videotaped Q&A sessions.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Good point, it may be a while before the Worm does anything worth worrying about.

And, as I think I said above, it seems to me that if the Worm devours the Elohim, that may put it back into slumber, and so save the Earth.

No. The very title of the last book of the Last Chronicles signals the end of everything, except Time. There won't be anything left but the Arch - which is invisible to us mortals - the freezing cold of space, and darkness. Everything dies. But in so doing, it makes way for new life, a new earth, hopefully without LF in it. If the Worm can devour Elohim then it can devour him too.

I am not sure it is safe to assume that something the Creator created to devour beings of Earthpower would have any effect on Lord Foul directly.

At least SRD states in his GI that the two legends don't conflict with each other. That could be debated endlessly so I somewhat regret sending my last post. The idea that the Creator created the Worm to devour beings of Earthpower is surely your own thought not to be found anywhere else. I'm sure the Worm can do so, since it can devour even stars. I am simply suggesting one possible solution to the problem of LF. But one thing's for certain, if the Earth is gone then LF won't have anything left to torment. He'll simply reside in the darkness at the end of everything, trapped inside the Arch of Time forever. Not even the Worm can break the Arch. And even if the Earth is rended,

The soul
in which the flower grows
survives.

[wayfriend]

"Done, Timewarden?" Infelice snapped viciously. "Done? She has roused the Worm of the World's End. Such magicks must be answered. Because of her madness and folly, every Elohim will be devoured."

The idea that the Worm would devour the Elohim comes from this passage. It also suggests that, in devouring the Elohim, "such magicks" would be "answered". Which suggests in turn that the Earth might be spared thereby.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

"Done, Timewarden?" Infelice snapped viciously. "Done? She has roused the Worm of the World's End. Such magicks must be answered. Because of her madness and folly, every Elohim will be devoured."

The idea that the Worm would devour the Elohim comes from this passage. It also suggests that, in devouring the Elohim, "such magicks" would be "answered". Which suggests in turn that the Earth might be spared thereby.

The Worm was already disturbed by Covenant's intrusion at the One Tree, the potency of Linden's "magicks" served to finish the job of rousing it from its slumber. Whether the Worm will literally devour the Elohim is obscure to me. But such Magicks are always answered, the Law of Time makes sure of that, and breaking the Arch would be the only way to prevent such dire consequences.

[Krazy Kat]

It does not seem conceivable that the earth will be destroyed with the wakening of the Worm. It is conceivable that the Elohim can be destroyed.

There is a theory that if you fall from a tall building in a dream but fail to waken you will die. The Elohim have been lied to, and I can think of know one else who would do such a thing. The shadow at the centre of the earth is what the Elohim fear most - silence!

[thewormoftheworld'send]

The name I chose to use on those forum speaks the truth of the matter. It literally is the worm of the world's end. The legend of the Earth's creation, which I quoted from Pitchwife, reveals that the Worm became drowsy after feasting upon so many stars, curled into a ball and fell asleep. The energy of all those stars was not, however, quieted by this, and from this the earth, along with all its earthpower, formed around the Worm. Living earthpower emanates from the remnants of all those stars, and reaches the surface closer in the Land than at any other point on earth.

The Elohim, as beings of pure earthpower, originated with the creation of the earth and will perish along with it, whether they are literally eaten or not. It is difficult to believe that such an immense being would choose such a minuscule meal to satiate its hunger after being asleep for so many eons, when, after all, there is earth's sun nearby ready to be feasted upon immediately.

[Rigel]

If the wakening of the Worm does not threaten the Earth, then there really is no threat at the end of TOT.

There is a theory that if you fall from a tall building in a dream but fail to waken you will die.

This is patently false. I know, I've done it

(Hurt like a bi*** when I woke up, but I don't think it was physical pain - I think it was my imagination continuing the dream).