Waking the Worm

[Mr.Land]

Anyone have any thoughts on why Roger couldn't have just taken Jeremiah and woken up the Worm using the Power of Command in the Earthblood? Perhaps this wasn't his purpose ( I don't FR in front of me right now but I seem to remember Roger saying he wanted to drive Linden to despair ) and perhaps being part Elohim makes him reluctant to the end the world.

On a related note, what has stopped Lord Foul from at least indirectly through one of his minions going to the Earthblood or the One Tree itself and just waking it up through the whole series? I'm guessing Lord Foul can't act directly in events (like the Creator) but is he also limited in having to have willing individuals choose to break the Arch of Time as opposed to controlling their actions like through a Raver?

Sorry if this has already been discussed. It was just bugging me.

[High Lord Tolkien]

If Linden hadn't been with Roger and Jeremiah the Elohim would have stopped him from going near the Earthblood.
So I suppose they would have stopped anyone else (from the beginning of time) from using it to rouse the Worm as well.

[wayfriend]

Anyone have any thoughts on why Roger couldn't have just taken Jeremiah and woken up the Worm using the Power of Command in the Earthblood? Perhaps this wasn't his purpose ( I don't FR in front of me right now but I seem to remember Roger saying he wanted to drive Linden to despair ) and perhaps being part Elohim makes him reluctant to the end the world.

It is very confusing to me. As best as I can make out, after listening to Xar and some others explain it to me, is that the Elohim would have prevented Roger from doing this. The only reason that they didn't prevent him during the unfolding of events in FR is that Linden was with him.

On a related note, what has stopped Lord Foul from at least indirectly through one of his minions going to the Earthblood or the One Tree itself and just waking it up through the whole series? I'm guessing Lord Foul can't act directly in events (like the Creator) but is he also limited in having to have willing individuals choose to break the Arch of Time as opposed to controlling their actions like through a Raver?

That's one of the biggest mysteries of all. The only explanation we have is from Findail, who says that Foul needs to have the white gold in his hands when the Arch breaks, or else he'll perish. But that may not even be true.

Sorry if this has already been discussed. It was just bugging me.

There are some other threads in the Fatal Forum, and a plethora of them in the Runes forum.

[Ur Dead]

Foul sends his minions to do his dirtywork. Thats if something bad happens then they get whacked and he doesn't.

But from the results, I think he getting his highly skilled workers from the local "Rent a Henchmen" outlet.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I share in your confusion Wayfriend!
I don't understand how just the Worm waking up will destroy the Arch.
That means that the Worm is greater or mightier than the Arch.
For years I THOUGHT that it was battle between TC and the Worm that would break the Arch but now after rereading the quote where I got it from, after reading it about 1000 times, I see that I was wrong.

I've read your masterful posts where you explain that the Arch and the Worm are the same.
I kinda understand you.
But do you still hold true to that even though at the end of FR the Worm is waking but the Arch is never mentioned?
It seemed to really separate the two.

Also, the Banefire.
The fact that TC couldn't put it out without breaking the Arch also seemed ludicrous to me.
Anything other than Wild Magic should not be able to break the Arch and nothing within the Arch should be more powerful than the Arch.

[wayfriend]

In WGW, TC is afraid to use too much power or else he'll break the Arch. In FR, Linden DOES use too much power, and she rouses the Worm. These both seem to be the same thing, in essence: Big Power -> End of World. So I don't see a need to revise my opinion.

[native]

Mheh, hehhehheh, heh

He said...

Oh never mind.

[dlbpharmd]

Neither Foul or a servant of Foul could enter Earthroot. I say this because if no servant of Foul would or could eat aliantha, then it stands to reason that they couldn't tolerate the awesome power in the vicinity of the Earthblood.

[wayfriend]

Good theory. But they did enter Earthroot.

[dlbpharmd]

Good theory. But they did enter Earthroot.

By "they" do you mean Roger and Jeremiah?

[Skurj Scourge]

I;d argue that Roger and Jeremiah are NOT servants of Foul at this point. If they were, they may just lack the free will that Foul needs to effect the destruction of the arch. That;s not to say that he may have "shispered a word of counsel" to them at some point...

[dlbpharmd]

I;d argue that Roger and Jeremiah are NOT servants of Foul at this point.

Right, they seem to be more in line with Kastanessen than Foul.

[wayfriend]

That seems like a distinction that is rather difficult to argue.

[Skurj Scourge]

Seems to me that Roger has an agenda that does not jibe 100 percent with Foul's. Don't have FR in front of me, but I recall that the "discussion" in Earthroot gave me the impression that Roger wanted to set himself up as some sort of god, rather than destroy the AoT. I might be misremembering...

[dlbpharmd]

That seems like a distinction that is rather difficult to argue.

Indeed it is, I've been stewing over this for the better part of them morning and can't work it out.

[wayfriend]

Seems to me that Roger has an agenda that does not jibe 100 percent with Foul's. Don't have FR in front of me, but I recall that the "discussion" in Earthroot gave me the impression that Roger wanted to set himself up as some sort of god, rather than destroy the AoT. I might be misremembering...

Yes, he thought he would be a God. Because he was helping Foul, and Foul would then take care of him.

I'm pretty sure that Roger claimed to be working for Foul in the big Earthroot reveal. I'll double check tho.

[Krilly]

They are working for Foul, but have their own agendas.

It was also Foul that suggested to Kast that he sever his hand.

[aliensporebomb]

I've thought about this carefully and my thinking is this:

Would it even be possible to wake the worm in the past being that all
future subsequent events would then not be possible to have occurred?

Another paradox.

But my thinking is, Roger didn't risk waking the worm because of the fact
that it's sort of like summoning a Sandgorgon only worse because it can
destroy the entire planet not just you and Roger doesn't want to die, he
wants to be some kind of demigod somewhere.

Also, he may be in league with Foul but I don't believe he completely
belongs to him. In accepting Kastenessan's hand, however, it did
affect his mind and he's not going to be able to have coherent thought
for long this way.

[Skurj Scourge]

If Roger is Foul's servant, then would it be possible for him to break the Arch...taking into account the whole "free will vs tool" argument?

[Seppi2112]

People can be tools of FOUL'S... the issue is that if the creator makes someone a tool then any action they take = an action by the creator = destruction of the arch.