Things to consider

[IrrationalSanity]

Lots of significant items

Manacles
- Who are they for?
- What do they do?

The Staff
- Composition
- Runes
- Blackness

Linden's Command
- One shot? It seems revealing Roger and a Croyel is not enough effect for the power released by such magic. The last time we saw a Command issued, a fundamental Law was broken. What are the ramifications of "Show me the truth" that we haven't seen yet?

ak Haru
- We haven't seen the last of this Elohim/Insequent/Haruchai

Appointed
- I see a trend: Every Appointed has become a Ward of some kind (Durance, Interdict, Guardian, Staff) Is Infelice or Chant appointed? What will they become?

The Worm and the Elohim
- Here's some stuff from hints:
- Infelice says it will consume every Elohim.
- It is known to have quite an appetite for Stars.
- The Earth's crust was formed by the Stars it has devoured being excreted from its resting body.

There's more, but this is what springs to mind at this moment.

[High Lord Tolkien]

Lots of significant items

Linden's Command
- One shot? It seems revealing Roger and a Croyel is not enough effect for the power released by such magic. The last time we saw a Command issued, a fundamental Law was broken. What are the ramifications of "Show me the truth" that we haven't seen yet?

I'd be satisfied if that was all there was to it.
Although the level of power the Word used to show the "truth" might have been small compared to "destroying the Illearth Stone" Linden's NEED to know the truth was what she wanted.
The Word of Command doesn't have to be used in a bad way.

And consider this.
Not only did Linden drink the Earth Blood but she also channeled it's power directly through the Staff of Law.
Anyone else get the feeling after reading that that she could take another drink and her body would survive?

[ninjaboy]

I ALWAYS had the impression that the Manacles are for the Ravers..

THey were created by the Ur-viles, and the ur-viles would understand that it was the Ravers who turned the Viles and Demondim from beings of good to something quite bad.. It seems blatantly obvious that these manacles are to confine the Ravers so that they can no longer posess and instruct others to do such evil, and in that way the ur-viles are seeking their repentence.

[IrrationalSanity]

I didn't say she used it in a bad way - in fact, that has to be one of the best (if not the very best) possible commands she could have uttered. I'm just saying the results don't seem to have gone far enough, and it appears to have been an instance of "shooting rabbits with an elephant gun". You've released enough power to kill an elephant - sure the rabbit is dead (VERY dead), but usually you've also left a rather large hole where the rabbit used to be. I'm wondering if we're going see that hole turn up at a later date.

Now, the subsequent release of power (the act of trying to roast the croyel) is a whole different animal, and certainly had plenty of impact. That's what caused the earthquake, after all. Of course, in this instance we had Roger backing it up, otherwise I'm sure it would have been toast as previous croyel apparently died much more easily. Maybe not VERY easily mind you, just relatively - one needed to be suffocated, and maybe it only could have been accomplished by an Elohim, the other needed Hamako to be supercharged with the blood of a bunch of Waynhym to prompt the meltdown - Linden probably could have been effective hadit not been for Covenant's son.

[Skurj Scourge]

I ALWAYS had the impression that the Manacles are for the Ravers..

THey were created by the Ur-viles, and the ur-viles would understand that it was the Ravers who turned the Viles and Demondim from beings of good to something quite bad.. It seems blatantly obvious that these manacles are to confine the Ravers so that they can no longer posess and instruct others to do such evil, and in that way the ur-viles are seeking their repentence.

What I get from FR is that it was the Viles that were corrupted by the Ravers, and that their encounter with Linden at Garrotting Deep had ALOT to do with their eventual hatred of trees. I believe that the Demondim were spawn of the Viles after their corruption and were bad to start with: no redemption for them. I also like the idea, in another thread, that the redemption of the Viles themselves will turn them into a new race of forestal-like beings.

To me, Linden's encounter with the Viles is the single biggest paradox of her visit to Berek's time. I do believe that we will see SRD reveal much more significance about this event.

As far as the manacles go, I think their are either for Longwrath or Joan, both of whom seem magically able to free themselves form whatever restraints they are in.

[Skurj Scourge]

Manacles: See my previous post

Staff: I think the blackness is significant (of course the runes are) I am reminded of the blackness of TC's venom in the 2nd Chrons.

Ak-Haru: Ah yes, the ultimate blending. Part Elohim, Part Insequent, Part Haruchai. I hope we see more of this guy. Plus, I wouldn't mind checking in with Brinn after all these years. He will be significant when it comes time to rouse the worm to cleanse the Earth.

Appointed: I think this is the nature of Appointment. The Elohim provide the power and other provide the structure. Remember how Findail became fluid when grasped by Vain, and when he choked the croyel off Kasryn? I think we will see Jeremiah creating a new Arch that will require ALL the elohim to power it. Could it be considered genocide?

The Worm and Elohim: Tying to this previous point. Will the Worm be transformed by Jeremiah into the new arch, to be sustained by all the elohim? Could be....Infleice does say that it will consume all the elohim...but it may be that it is their fate to become the new Arch of Time.

[dlbpharmd]

I ALWAYS had the impression that the Manacles are for the Ravers..

THey were created by the Ur-viles, and the ur-viles would understand that it was the Ravers who turned the Viles and Demondim from beings of good to something quite bad.. It seems blatantly obvious that these manacles are to confine the Ravers so that they can no longer posess and instruct others to do such evil, and in that way the ur-viles are seeking their repentence.

I like this idea.

I disagree with Skurj above about the Demondim - they were taught to despise themselves by a Raver according to ROTE and FR.

[Atrium]

Yeah, the Demondim are described as a stern and lofty race, or something like that. Until they were corrupted.

I always assumed the manacles would be for Kastenessen or Foul, but now i see that ravers are another likely option. Or why not Roger?

[Relayer]

Didn't Roger (pretending to be TC) say the manacles were for him? At the time, we're supposed to wonder why the urviles want to capture TC, but maybe that's the literal truth: they're for Roger.

[ninjaboy]

Yeah.. That was a good point.. Roger has definately been taught to fear the manacles, so he definately consideres them a threat to himself or one of his allies..

But I still believe that the Demondim-Spawn would understand enough of their own history to know they were corrupted by Ravers - they would see the ravers as their natural enemy... And the thing about the Ravers - like Joan and Longwrath - is they can go anywhere they want..

I doubt the Longwrath hypothesis - the Ur-Viles couldn't have seen his coming at all... And they've been working on these Manacles for ages, I'm led to believe, so I'd imagine it's for a long-standing grudge thing..

[Skurj Scourge]

OK, maybe the manacles aren't for Longwrath (in another thread, I argued this, but then agreed that he is probably not significant enough to warrant that much attention from the ur-viles.) however, I do think the theory that the manacles are for Joan carries water.

She is a dire threat to the Earth, what with her being a White Gold Wielder and all. She has shown evidence of being able to get out of whatever restraints she is put in and her creation of the ceasures threatens the Arch. In other words, she is a MAJOR player...

[Zarathustra]

OK, maybe the manacles aren't for Longwrath (in another thread, I argued this, but then agreed that he is probably not significant enough to warrant that much attention from the ur-viles.) however, I do think the theory that the manacles are for Joan carries water.

She is a dire threat to the Earth, what with her being a White Gold Wielder and all. She has shown evidence of being able to get out of whatever restraints she is put in and her creation of the ceasures threatens the Arch. In other words, she is a MAJOR player...

I agree with this completely. Of course she's a major player: she creates the caesures and thus the threat to Time. She hasn't really been dealt with yet . . . which can only mean there's something big looming on the horizon. And Joan is threatening time, after all, by smashing her own head. I'd think manacles could be extremely useful in that context--maybe even stop caesures altogether. Could it really be that simple? Stop the crazy woman from hitting herself?

The Worm and Elohim: Tying to this previous point. Will the Worm be transformed by Jeremiah into the new arch, to be sustained by all the elohim? Could be....Infleice does say that it will consume all the elohim...but it may be that it is their fate to become the new Arch of Time.

I like this, too. Donaldson seems to make a distinction (especially in the video question from Elohimfest) between these two symbols as being separate things Foul can attack and form strategies for his release. So by combining the potential threat (Worm) into the thing which preserves (Arch), it would form a stable union of symbols.

Linden's Command
- One shot? It seems revealing Roger and a Croyel is not enough effect for the power released by such magic. The last time we saw a Command issued, a fundamental Law was broken. What are the ramifications of "Show me the truth" that we haven't seen yet?

I, too, expect some more ramifications of this . . . but it does make one wonder why she didn't see the danger in resurrecting Covenant.

[IrrationalSanity]

Actually, I suspect she saw the net result of the resurrection, not the incidental damage the process might cause along the way. "You can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs..." It looks like we'll have at least a whole book to watch that omlette being made...

[ninjaboy]

What about Kastanessen?

Originally I had thought the Manacles couldn't be for any of the Elohim - what do the Ur-Viles have to do with Elohim I thought?? But then I thought of Vain, that they'd deliberately made him to merge with an Elohim to create the new Staff of Law..

Perhaps there is more of a relationship between the Ur-Viles and Elohim han we yet understand, and then maybe the Manacles are to hold them, or just Kastenessen.. Or perhaps one of the Insequent, who also seem to be irrefutably linked witht he Elohim..

I still like the Ravers idea.. Without being able to lock them down somewhere they would be able to corrupt and destroy whatever remains of the future of the Land - as far as I can tell, the ravers do have to be stopped - they've been a constant danger to all the land and a conclusion that leaves them free and unaffected would, in my eyes, seem incomplete.

[emotional leper]

The Ravers could be destroyed by Wild Magic, I believe. Or maybe that's what the Sandgorgons have come to the Land for: More tasty raver snacks.

[ninjaboy]

Well isn't the Raver that was 'rent' by Nom still corrupting them?

That's what I understood... Their presence in the Land does not sit well with me - they are very capable of doing a lot of damage.. However perhaps they will respond to a resurrected Covenant?

Could the Mancles be for the Sandgorgons?

[emotional leper]

I'm betting the manacles are for Kassy and his Half-handedness. The Ur-Viles have already demonstrated that they're adept at creating constructs that can bind the Elohim.

[earthbrah]

Good posts, folks.

I'm stuck on the image of the crust of the Earth being Worm-crap from a star-feast. Blech!!!

[IrrationalSanity]

Good posts, folks.

I'm stuck on the image of the crust of the Earth being Worm-crap from a star-feast. Blech!!!

I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that imagery...

[Ur Dead]

Another thing to consider.
Sort of a parallelism of TC and Linden.

When Thomas was translated to the Land in the second Chronicles, he was fatally stabbed and used Wild Magic to heal himself.
When Linden was recently translated to the Land. She also healed herself with Wild Magic when she was fatally shot.

Each one did that approximately ten years from their previous translations.

In TC case there was no way he could be returned to his own world without physically dying.
The latest is Linden can't return without dying.

TC died in the second Chronicles to ensue victory over Foul. The results for Linden are still pending.

Both, at the beginning, on their second major campaign against Foul took some sort of decisive action.

Both on their second return, have been remembered as preforming great deeds by the Harchuai.

Any others??