The Problem with Multiplayer Gaming

[emotional leper]

I have spent many, many, many long years playing games and pondering the problems with Multiplayer games. I have finally found the solution to the question of multiplayer games.

The Problem with Multiplayer Games is Other People.

I just got done playing Zombie Panic: Source, quitting because my teammates were all incompetent bastards who were too busy goofing off to pay attention to the fact that there was a horde of zombies coming into our barricaded room. I was then blamed for us all dying, when I was screaming on the mike, "ZOMBIES! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HELP ME!"

This tends to happen every other game or so.

Then there's EverQuest, WoW, and every other MMORPG. Other people are once again the problem. Take this exchange from ProjectEQ's servers the other day:

Me, playing four characters: I have two more spots open in PoInnovation, if anyone wants to come.
Rogue: I'll come. Let's do the factory.
Me: I don't think that's a good idea.
Rogue: We can take 'em.

The rogue then proceeds to draw the attention of two monsters who wipe the floor with us, and blames me for not being able to keep us alive (Gee, sorry, when that thing kills me faster than I can heal, it's kind of hard to keep us alive.)

CounterStrike: Source? Other people. Hackers, and just general griefing assholes whose only purpose in life seems to be ruining other peoples' enjoyment in the game (I'm talking about you, you terrorist assholes who snipe from spawn in de_dust2. )

I need to find a way to do without other people. Perhaps a series of bots.

[Loredoctor]

I have spent many, many, many long years playing games and pondering the problems with Multiplayer games. I have finally found the solution to the question of multiplayer games.

The Problem with Multiplayer Games is Other People.

I just got done playing Zombie Panic: Source, quitting because my teammates were all incompetent bastards who were too busy goofing off to pay attention to the fact that there was a horde of zombies coming into our barricaded room. I was then blamed for us all dying, when I was screaming on the mike, "ZOMBIES! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HELP ME!"

This tends to happen every other game or so.

Then there's EverQuest, WoW, and every other MMORPG. Other people are once again the problem. Take this exchange from ProjectEQ's servers the other day:

Me, playing four characters: I have two more spots open in PoInnovation, if anyone wants to come.
Rogue: I'll come. Let's do the factory.
Me: I don't think that's a good idea.
Rogue: We can take 'em.

The rogue then proceeds to draw the attention of two monsters who wipe the floor with us, and blames me for not being able to keep us alive (Gee, sorry, when that thing kills me faster than I can heal, it's kind of hard to keep us alive.)

CounterStrike: Source? Other people. Hackers, and just general griefing assholes whose only purpose in life seems to be ruining other peoples' enjoyment in the game (I'm talking about you, you terrorist assholes who snipe from spawn in de_dust2. )

I need to find a way to do without other people. Perhaps a series of bots.

I have always found that the Battlefield series (2 & 2142) have mature players. But good post, EL.

[Nav]

I believe you've struck on the great trueism of modern gaming EL, and maybe even modern life.

I find the problem less troublesome in MMO games though, as you can be sure there are a bunch of people out there who are just as pissed off with the griefers, jerks and lowlifes as you are. If you can find them (a bit like the A-Team) then the whole experience becomes far more viable, but the nature of MMOs dictates that even if you know a good group of players, other aspects of the game will continually bring you into contact with asshats and their asshattery.

The multiplayer environment still does change though, Xbox Live is a very different place than it was a year ago. Back then, nearly everyone had a headset and would at least be listening to the voice chat. There was usually a degree of tactical discussion, you'd find the odd person that was funny and/or competent and you'd find about twice as many trash-talking weasels.

Since the release of Halo 3 there seems to have been a shift. People want to play online without the trash-talking weasels and the result is, hardly anyone uses a headset anymore. This unfortunately means that a lot of pleasant, competent players are no longer able to communicate with each other and the standard of play has deteriorated considerably.

Predictably this is a big problem in Halo 3, but I've felt the knock-on effect in Team Fortress 2 and Call of Duty 4. It's very easy to mute people on Xbox Live, but it seems like more and more people are prepared to forego all voice comms just to be sure of not having to listen to these idiots.

Personally I'd like them to change the system, so that if a certain proportion of people you play put you on mute, you lose the ability to speak on XBL. People would be a lot more considerate that way, but I fear that Microsoft has been too slow off the mark and now there aren't enough talkers left to make it work.

[emotional leper]

Oh, I didn't even mention WoW's PvP system. I have no problem with the idea of PvP. I used to play on a PvP server when I played WoW (Skullcrusher US.) I have no problem when someone wants to fight me. What I have a problem with is when someone with 20 levels on me who I have no chance of fighting jumps me. There are only two good experiences I have from PvP on WoW in about a year of playing it. I was in Hillsbrad Foothills, grinding on bears, and some Pally jumped me and started whacking me in the middle of a fight. I did /wait, and he backed off. I killed the bear, ate up and healed, and then walked over to him and did /ready. We fought. He won (he had 10 or so levels on me.) He didn't /spit on my corpse when he killed me, either. That was a decent (if not even) fight.

The second one was right after I got my first mount, in STV, and I'm riding, and some Alli mage passes me, then turns around and starts chasing me. He's epic mounted, so I'm running as fast as I can, and he catches up to me, demounts, and sheeps me, and then proceeds to /dance with my sheeped self. When the sheep wears off, he lets me go. That was also amusing. He could have wiped the floor with me, but he didn't.

The rest of it is people who ten or more levels on you attacking you and killing you, corpse campers, and the like. Of course, then there are the stupid people, like once when I wandered into Gnomeregan, who, though they're 10 levels lower than you, think the five of them can take you. I wiped the floor with their asses and then sat on their corpses when they came to get them, and just /waved at them. I killed them all again when they tried it the second time. (Here's a hint. Retaliation hits everyone who attacks me unless it's from behind.)

Sigh.

Atleast it's a little less broken than EQ's PvP system.

Of course, my biggest issue with CounterStrike: Source isn't a player issue. It's that no one ever turns on Friendly Fire. It just sucks half the realism and tactics out of the game when you can just cut across a teammate's line of fire while they're shooting, or toss a grenade into a group of people and only kill the enemies.

[hierachy]

You moan too much. Man up.

[wayfriend]

Kill the other players. Way more fun.

[matrixman]

I don't care for online multiplayer either. Instead, I hook up with friends in person and play together on a console. A lot more fun for me that way. The unassuming little Gamecube has provided us hours of multiplayer gaming enjoyment over the last few years.

[Worm of Despite]

I've been lucky: the moments of fun and cooperation have outweighed any problems. Speedhacking on CS: Source gets quickly noticed and banned. I've had games where my team is playing poorly, but most of the time it's not stupidity; they're just in a slump or not trying hard. A few rounds later, they get momentum.

I don't care for online multiplayer either. Instead, I hook up with friends in person and play together on a console. A lot more fun for me that way. The unassuming little Gamecube has provided us hours of multiplayer gaming enjoyment over the last few years.

I admit, I had some good times with Mario Kart and GoldenEye, but you can't beat the variety or mayhem of a 32-player server. I've played Counter-Strike for years, and it's the only game to still give me an adrenaline rush. Team Fortress 2 has a mode called "control point", where one team puts another on SIEGE for up to 20 minutes, trying to capture their base. In another game, Ultima Online, I've seen battles ranging from 40 to 150 people. They even had town council meetings, bazaars, drinking pubs; I became a Vice Mayor and later got impeached!

You have to have friends to play on a console, which is a no-go for me, unless I master multiple personalities or telekinesis. Plus, split screen gaming degrades the graphics and lets you see where the enemy is.

[Cagliostro]

I can't bear online play unless it is something that makes a lick of sense. I remember hopping on a trial run of Tribes or something since a friend of a friend of mine created the damn thing, and just got brutally murdered over and over again. I was just trying to feel out the thing and learn how to frickin' walk around. Every online gameplay experience has been shadows of this theme. Although I did try a little Diablo 2 onlining, and had some fun with that.

[matrixman]

I understand your point, Lord Foul. Of course, your view is that of a dedicated online gamer. Same with EL, Lore and Nav. The online multiplayer arena is your milieu, so you're better able to deal with whatever nonsense comes your way.

Whereas, I speak as a more casual gamer these days (used to play a lot more in the days of Quake). My online multiplayer experience has been more like Cag's, so like him, I'm not very tolerant of @$$holes online.

[Nav]

I find that starting to play multiplayer on a game that's been out for quite a while is a harrowing experience. I've never played RTSs online because a) I'm not very good at them anyway and b) If you're late to the table, your oppinents will likely not only beat you hollow, but mock you for your nubishness as well.

FPSs are almost as bad, as you can find yourself dying almost instantly and being completely ineffective when you do get the chance to attack. The reason I have such fond memories of Halo PC is that it's relatively hard to finish players off in that game, so if you get shot you often have time to retreat and recover. You may not be able to actually kill anyone, but you're alive for a while and at least feel like you're making progress.

[emotional leper]

There is a reason I having a functional WoW emulator installed on this computer.

[Worm of Despite]

I've never played RTSs online because a) I'm not very good at them anyway and b) If you're late to the table, your oppinents will likely not only beat you hollow, but mock you for your nubishness as well.

I agree. I don't buy an RTS unless it has good single-player. I'd love to be good at StarCraft, but that game is ingrained with older, skilled players, and it's incredibly hard to do well or even have fun.

[Holsety]

I can't bear online play unless it is something that makes a lick of sense. I remember hopping on a trial run of Tribes or something since a friend of a friend of mine created the damn thing, and just got brutally murdered over and over again. I was just trying to feel out the thing and learn how to frickin' walk around. Every online gameplay experience has been shadows of this theme. Although I did try a little Diablo 2 onlining, and had some fun with that.

I love tribes, it's so much fun. Playing TAC is the best, there's always someone who doesn't know what it stands for (team aerial combat) and keeps landing on the ground and dying. One dude actually thought the enemy team was sniping him every time he left the base.

But yes, one of the big problems with the game is it basically had no learning curve whatsoever. Single player was barely existent, was too easy to teach anything of use.

In Warcraft III, the only "good" multiplayer (in terms of skill) is 1v1 or arranged team games. I assume it's that way for most RTS's. EL, your problem seems to be with other people ON YOUR TEAM, so the obvious result is to not play games with "teamwork." Free for alls and one vs one games would solve that problem.

However, as to what you guys are saying about 1v1 RTS's being to hard, that's exactly what random 4v4 matches in Warcraft III are about. If you suck, some people are likely to be whiny bastards and just flame you, but some other people will offer help (I usually try to if I play random, which is a lot more stress free than 1v1s).

Or you'll get tired and go become a crappy worthless DOTA player. (sorry if I offended anyone).

[matrixman]

Such haughtiness from Holsety! He must be shown no mercy. Load up an Unreal Tournament map and we shall see who the real--

Headshot!! You killed Matrixman

Holsety is on a killing spree!

[Holsety]

Such haughtiness from Holsety! He must be shown no mercy. Load up an Unreal Tournament map and we shall see who the real--

Headshot!! You killed Matrixman

Holsety is on a killing spree!

LOL, I'm not really all that at shooters for the most part though. It's funny, because DOTA (a custom game on WCIII which seems to be more popular than the ladder games) uses the same voice effects as Unreal does (headshot, monster kill, etc) when people are owning and getting hero kills.

I was good at tribes, back in the day, but I doubt I could hit anyone with a disclauncher let alone discjump now.

And personally, I like team games, idiot allies or not, but I'm just saying that El's problems could possibly be solved by playing games w/out allied play.

Sometimes very simple hack and slash games (gauntlet, secret of mana) can be pretty fun with some friends.

EDIT-But as far as RTSs, seriously, if you play in team you learn the basics (how to survive BM harass etc) from advice and then you take it to 1v1 and learn other stuff (like what races and units suck now b/c you don't have 3 allied armies).

[Nav]

My current problem with multiplayer gaming is that my teammates consistently suck. I don't get it, I'm nearly always in the top two for kills yet I'm usually on the losing side. I hope they aren't looking to me for organisation or something.

[emotional leper]

Yah. Other people are the largest problem.

Of course, if I could figure out how to get all the Elite Mobs in my WoW database as strong as normal mobs, I'd be happy right now./

[Nav]

Can't you add yourself to the game as a GM? They can give themselves whatever weapons and armor they like. They would often be seen with the Ashbringer long before there was a way to actually get it in game.

I played a lot of Halo 3 yesterday and it only reinforced what I state above: I rock, but my teammates usually suck. I think I won two team slayer games all night and in one of those I took 23 kills out of the team's 50. It's got me thinking about Halo's matchmaking engine. I lose more games than I win, despite strong individual performances, and because of this my Team Slayer rank is a paltry 5. Halo balances the eight players in the match by rank, but I don't think rank plays a part in assigning teams; a five is a five is a five as far as it's concerned. I think Halo may be using Microsoft's TrueSkill system, a hidden set of statistics governing a player's estimated skill level and uncertainty factor, which is tracked across all Xbox Live games, (for more information and algebra see: research.microsoft.com/mlp/apg/Details.aspx) to assign players to teams within a match.

I believe that my low rank masks my relatively high TrueSkill value, thus condemning me to a Spartan Life in the company of noobs.

[Worm of Despite]

I think Halo may be using Microsoft's TrueSkill system, a hidden set of statistics governing a player's estimated skill level and uncertainty factor, which is tracked across all Xbox Live games, (for more information and algebra see: research.microsoft.com/mlp/apg/Details.aspx) to assign players to teams within a match.

I believe that my low rank masks my relatively high TrueSkill value, thus condemning me to a Spartan Life in the company of noobs.

Like other multiplayer Xbox 360 titles, Halo 3 uses a customized version of TrueSkill ranking system for 'matchmaking', or the automated grouping of players of similar skill.