Burnt Out
Moderators: Orlion, balon!, aliantha
-
duchess of malfi
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11104
- Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:20 pm
- Location: Michigan, USA
I'm not sure if this is quite the right place to put this...but it does seem to deal with some of the concerns Syl and Hellfire expressed, so I chose to place it here...I just wish I had Syl's gift of clearly and concisely communicating my points and concerns. 
When I have taken my breaks from the board it usually happens from a couple of reasons. And those reasons do overlap to some extent. I refuse to make negative examples of people or specific threads, as I truly do not wish to cause any hurt feelings. And I certainly hope that no one will take anything I say as a personal attack, as it is not intended to be one at all. I am just trying to address some problems I have had in as honest and direct way as I can...
The first reason is that a round of fingerpointing and bickering has broken out. To me this is different from spirited debate. Spirited debate is always to be valued. I will give a couple of examples here because they are positive ones. Fist and Furls have had some wonderful spirited debates about the TC books. Sky and Brinn and Kins and Syl are some of the many who have had them in the Think Tank. The entire thread of "What is Evil?" is completely awesome. There are other examples of this all over the board, as this place with filled with articulate and intelligent people. But there is a definate line, to me, at least, between debate and bickering and finger-pointing. I couldn't define that line if my life depended on it, but to me it is there. And when it is crossed people's feelings are hurt, sometimes badly. And I find that personally very hard to deal with, even if I might not be involved in that particular thread or round of arguing.
The second is a somewhat related and overlapping reason of, well, what I have heard referred to elsewhere as trolls. We have had a couple of people I suspect might be trolls, one last summer and another more recently. I certainly hope MsMary and Foamy are reading this thread because I know that a board they spend a lot of time at does have this problem sometimes and that the people at that board have come up with strategies for dealing with this sort of thing. So I think those two fine ladies might have a lot of very valuable advice and input on dealing with this if it ever happens again. From what I have heard, a troll is someone who joins a board in order to try to deliberately cause arguement and trouble among the members there. Again, I will not name any names, as I have no proof of the motives of the two people I am thinking about -- but if they wanted to cause trouble or not, they certainly succeeded in doing so. Arguing didn't seem to work in either case, and the more heated the arguing got the more unhappy some members got (myself included). The filibuster, while intended as a peaceful protest, seemed to really bother at least two valued members (if I am reading Syl and Hellfire's comments correctly) so probably shouldn't be used again. But what does the board itself look like when really disturbing comments such as some of the ones used recently were to go unchallenged? What would SRD or a new person lurking about thinking about becoming a member think if they saw some of those comments go unchallenged?
It truly seems to be a no-win situation when this happens...maybe the board membership as a whole -- with the guidance of Jay and other leaders, perhaps with the advice of MsMary and Foamy -- can come up with a unified strategy for the membership to follow in case this ever happens again?
And I honestly don't know how to deal with the bickering situation. But it does and has hurt people. And I think it does need to be discussed and addressed somehow, in a way that will not cause any more hurt feelings, if that is possible...
Sorry about the all of the rambling. Peace to all, and a Happy Thanksgiving.
When I have taken my breaks from the board it usually happens from a couple of reasons. And those reasons do overlap to some extent. I refuse to make negative examples of people or specific threads, as I truly do not wish to cause any hurt feelings. And I certainly hope that no one will take anything I say as a personal attack, as it is not intended to be one at all. I am just trying to address some problems I have had in as honest and direct way as I can...
The first reason is that a round of fingerpointing and bickering has broken out. To me this is different from spirited debate. Spirited debate is always to be valued. I will give a couple of examples here because they are positive ones. Fist and Furls have had some wonderful spirited debates about the TC books. Sky and Brinn and Kins and Syl are some of the many who have had them in the Think Tank. The entire thread of "What is Evil?" is completely awesome. There are other examples of this all over the board, as this place with filled with articulate and intelligent people. But there is a definate line, to me, at least, between debate and bickering and finger-pointing. I couldn't define that line if my life depended on it, but to me it is there. And when it is crossed people's feelings are hurt, sometimes badly. And I find that personally very hard to deal with, even if I might not be involved in that particular thread or round of arguing.
The second is a somewhat related and overlapping reason of, well, what I have heard referred to elsewhere as trolls. We have had a couple of people I suspect might be trolls, one last summer and another more recently. I certainly hope MsMary and Foamy are reading this thread because I know that a board they spend a lot of time at does have this problem sometimes and that the people at that board have come up with strategies for dealing with this sort of thing. So I think those two fine ladies might have a lot of very valuable advice and input on dealing with this if it ever happens again. From what I have heard, a troll is someone who joins a board in order to try to deliberately cause arguement and trouble among the members there. Again, I will not name any names, as I have no proof of the motives of the two people I am thinking about -- but if they wanted to cause trouble or not, they certainly succeeded in doing so. Arguing didn't seem to work in either case, and the more heated the arguing got the more unhappy some members got (myself included). The filibuster, while intended as a peaceful protest, seemed to really bother at least two valued members (if I am reading Syl and Hellfire's comments correctly) so probably shouldn't be used again. But what does the board itself look like when really disturbing comments such as some of the ones used recently were to go unchallenged? What would SRD or a new person lurking about thinking about becoming a member think if they saw some of those comments go unchallenged?
It truly seems to be a no-win situation when this happens...maybe the board membership as a whole -- with the guidance of Jay and other leaders, perhaps with the advice of MsMary and Foamy -- can come up with a unified strategy for the membership to follow in case this ever happens again?
And I honestly don't know how to deal with the bickering situation. But it does and has hurt people. And I think it does need to be discussed and addressed somehow, in a way that will not cause any more hurt feelings, if that is possible...
Sorry about the all of the rambling. Peace to all, and a Happy Thanksgiving.
Love as thou wilt.
-
Worm of Despite
- Lord
- Posts: 9546
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 7:46 pm
- Location: Rome, GA
- Contact:
-
kevinswatch
- "High" Lord
- Posts: 5584
- Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 2:46 pm
- Location: In the dark, lonely cave that dwells within my eternal soul of despair. It's next to a Pizza Hut.
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 3 times
- Contact:
Yeah, I agree with you, duchess. Good, mature, intellectual debates are a good thing to have. They are something where we can all learn something. But I think the line that is crossed sometimes is the idea that when people attack someone else's idea in a debate, it can feel to the person like they themselves are being attacked. I guess we all just need to be mroe careful in debates and be respectful. But things like this happen all of time in serious discussion. We just need to learn to be cool with it and manage it properly.
As for trolls, well, if someone comes to the Watch for the sole purpose of causing problems. And this is obvious. Just tell me, and I'll just ban the sucker. I'm good at keeping people banned and out of the way.
And what's this about a filabuster? Heh.-jay
As for trolls, well, if someone comes to the Watch for the sole purpose of causing problems. And this is obvious. Just tell me, and I'll just ban the sucker. I'm good at keeping people banned and out of the way.
And what's this about a filabuster? Heh.-jay
-
Furls Fire
- Lord
- Posts: 4872
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:35 am
- Location: Heaven
I love the debates, they are fun and open the mind to other possibilities then the ones you have yourself formed. I just don't debate politics or religion, the former because I really have no clue how it all works, and the latter, because I respect everyone's right to their own belief system and I have no right to try to sway anyone to mine.
Syl, I was sad when I read your opening post for this thread. I have always loved your comments and perspective on different subjects. Please don't go anywhere, because I would really miss reading you.
And Fist, the Earthsea finally came!! But, alas, I won't be able to pick them up and start reading until the middle of next week sometime. Busy time for me now. I know that it's driving you insane...isn't it?? hehehe
Happy Thanksgiving everyone (for those in the US)
Syl, I was sad when I read your opening post for this thread. I have always loved your comments and perspective on different subjects. Please don't go anywhere, because I would really miss reading you.
And Fist, the Earthsea finally came!!
But, alas, I won't be able to pick them up and start reading until the middle of next week sometime. Busy time for me now. I know that it's driving you insane...isn't it?? hehehe Happy Thanksgiving everyone (for those in the US)
And I believe in you
altho you never asked me too
I will remember you
and what life put you thru.
~fly fly little wing, fly where only angels sing~
~this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you~
...for then I could fly away and be at rest. Sweet rest, Mom. We all love and miss you.
altho you never asked me too
I will remember you
and what life put you thru.
~fly fly little wing, fly where only angels sing~
~this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you~
...for then I could fly away and be at rest. Sweet rest, Mom. We all love and miss you.
-
Fist and Faith
- Magister Vitae
- Posts: 23653
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 33 times
Good one!!
Probably something like"gee, this person is a real ass- no wonder no one bothered to reply to his/her post"duchess of malfi wrote: What would SRD or a new person lurking about thinking about becoming a member think if they saw some of those comments go unchallenged?
I agree with you right there. All communities need an effective peace -keeping vice. Something respectful and just and fast working. I think when we stoop down to fillabustering it is really putting us on the same level as the offender. I have more faith in this board and we can over come anything and anyone when we all work together. (now -where is my "cheesy" emoticon?)duchess of malfi wrote: It truly seems to be a no-win situation when this happens...maybe the board membership as a whole -- with the guidance of Jay and other leaders, perhaps with the advice of MsMary and Foamy -- can come up with a unified strategy for the membership to follow in case this ever happens again?
"Hellfire! Everybody in this whole business, you and everyone keep accusing me of being some sort of closet expert. I tell you, I don't know one damn thing about this unless someone explains it to me. I'm not your bloody Berek."
-
Damelon
- Lord
- Posts: 8550
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:40 pm
- Location: Illinois
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 4 times
I suppose I have a bit of burn out myself. Even though I check in every day, it took me until now to discover this thread, and realize that it's an important enough one to have to comment on. There are a large amount of threads that are being created-commented on lately. I was last on about 18 hours ago, and since then there are comments on 57 topics. The volume makes it difficult for me to keep up, so I pick and choose among topics that are likely to be interesting for browsing. Syl, I'm not ignoring you, your posts are for the most part very interesting, but I don't always see what you are saying. You are one of those here that, if I come across a post of yours in a thread that I just am beginning to read, I make a point of reading your comment in order to get a sense of the direction of the thread.
I agree with Fist's earlier statement. Paraphrasing him, you can't turn the clock back. There are a lot of new people here, who on finding this site want to talk about all things SRD. That is good, it brings new blood to the Watch. I don't want to be one who scolds people saying "Why don't you look through the threads, we talked about "X" six months ago.". They are happy to find people who share admiration for the work of the author who brought us all together.
It is inevitable that Lena's rape comes up since it is so central to the Chronicles. It's a tough topic to discuss since one has to be careful to be very precise with language in order to avoid being offensive. Not everyone who discusses it considers that before they post. There have been other topics recently where comments innocently enough made have been perceived to be offensive. I'm willing to ignore those comments, marking isolated offensive posts down to poor phrasing. Trolls, generally, go out of their way to be consistantly offensive. In that case I leave it up to the Moderators to decide the matter.
I agree with Fist's earlier statement. Paraphrasing him, you can't turn the clock back. There are a lot of new people here, who on finding this site want to talk about all things SRD. That is good, it brings new blood to the Watch. I don't want to be one who scolds people saying "Why don't you look through the threads, we talked about "X" six months ago.". They are happy to find people who share admiration for the work of the author who brought us all together.
It is inevitable that Lena's rape comes up since it is so central to the Chronicles. It's a tough topic to discuss since one has to be careful to be very precise with language in order to avoid being offensive. Not everyone who discusses it considers that before they post. There have been other topics recently where comments innocently enough made have been perceived to be offensive. I'm willing to ignore those comments, marking isolated offensive posts down to poor phrasing. Trolls, generally, go out of their way to be consistantly offensive. In that case I leave it up to the Moderators to decide the matter.
That's okay you sweet sweet mandanlo wrote:I apologize 4 my participation in the filibuster, Hellfire, it wasn't my intention to upset u...
Your concern makes me blush."Hellfire! Everybody in this whole business, you and everyone keep accusing me of being some sort of closet expert. I tell you, I don't know one damn thing about this unless someone explains it to me. I'm not your bloody Berek."
-
[Syl]
- Unfettered One
- Posts: 13020
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:36 am
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1 time
Maybe instead of banning, we could get a block/ignore feature?
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
-
duchess of malfi
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11104
- Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:20 pm
- Location: Michigan, USA
-
theDespiser
- <i>Haruchai</i>
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2003 3:58 am
- Location: FL
for the record, im not a troll...
anyway, i know what syl is saying...this has happened more than once at the main board i post at...ive been posting on that one since 2000, and it has since moved, and ive had to stop posting for a little while a few times due to the influx of people/trolls, and constant bickering and such...but i was at this(the other board im talking about) board since it began for the most part, and i WONT be run out from it...so i always go back...the trolls usually end up leaving, and the regulars and people serious about posting useful stuff usually stay...
ANYway...each board that i post at/have every posted at goes through phases of being really cool all the way to really sucking...so...
if you like this place alot, then take a break, like youve said youve done in the past...then come back...if you dont want to, its just a message board...no big deal
i just think its really cool that ive actually found other SRD fans out there besides me
anyway, i know what syl is saying...this has happened more than once at the main board i post at...ive been posting on that one since 2000, and it has since moved, and ive had to stop posting for a little while a few times due to the influx of people/trolls, and constant bickering and such...but i was at this(the other board im talking about) board since it began for the most part, and i WONT be run out from it...so i always go back...the trolls usually end up leaving, and the regulars and people serious about posting useful stuff usually stay...
ANYway...each board that i post at/have every posted at goes through phases of being really cool all the way to really sucking...so...
if you like this place alot, then take a break, like youve said youve done in the past...then come back...if you dont want to, its just a message board...no big deal
i just think its really cool that ive actually found other SRD fans out there besides me
Think on that, and be dismayed
What do you do to a man who has lost everything?
Give him back something broken
What do you do to a man who has lost everything?
Give him back something broken
-
theDespiser
- <i>Haruchai</i>
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2003 3:58 am
- Location: FL
one reason the main board i post at keeps drawing me there is that its not a pc lovey-dovey nice polite board...theres a certain eticquette, of course, and trolls are still frowned upon, and people are generally nice/cool to each other....but...ya know, no pc patrol
but thats not for every board...im not sayin this board should do that...its fine the way it is...BUT, i am used to more of that other style...heh
but thats not for every board...im not sayin this board should do that...its fine the way it is...BUT, i am used to more of that other style...heh
Think on that, and be dismayed
What do you do to a man who has lost everything?
Give him back something broken
What do you do to a man who has lost everything?
Give him back something broken
-
duchess of malfi
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11104
- Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:20 pm
- Location: Michigan, USA
the Despiser, I just wanted you to know that as far as I know, no one here has ever thought you might be a troll.
I have never heard the least suspician from anyone that you might be a troll. Please do not think that you are anything other than welcome here.
Yes, your views might differ from some of the other members on some things, but you have never attacked anyone personally on this board or done anything to deliberately cause turmoil to my knowledge.
I have never heard the least suspician from anyone that you might be a troll.
Please do not think that you are anything other than welcome here. Yes, your views might differ from some of the other members on some things, but you have never attacked anyone personally on this board or done anything to deliberately cause turmoil to my knowledge.
Love as thou wilt.
-
Fist and Faith
- Magister Vitae
- Posts: 23653
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 33 times
)
I've just now found this thread, and want to respond - I'm a new member here, having found this site in September. I absolute LOVE this site, and check in several times each day. I'm learning so much about my all-time favorite book series, and I'm learning from each of you. Thank you all for that.
Finding this site inspired me to re-read both the 1st and 2nd Chronicles for the first time in 10 years. I'm especially enjoying the Dissecting the Land forum. I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be the traffic there that there was during previous books. All I can say is that when Danlo gave me 2 chapters in TWL to dissect, I was so excited that even my wife couldn't help but notice (probably because I began to work on it right away, instead of my usual procrastination.)
There are a lot of "silly" threads lately, but I just ignore them.
Burn-out is understandable, particularly when subjects repeat - but as long as new people are finding this site, that is going to continue to happen.
As for rude postings - if I ever write something that is inappropriate, just tell me so - I'll apologize, clarify, whatever I need to do to make it right.
So, take a break when you need to - but don't leave! I'm learning too much.
Thanks, Don.
Finding this site inspired me to re-read both the 1st and 2nd Chronicles for the first time in 10 years. I'm especially enjoying the Dissecting the Land forum. I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be the traffic there that there was during previous books. All I can say is that when Danlo gave me 2 chapters in TWL to dissect, I was so excited that even my wife couldn't help but notice (probably because I began to work on it right away, instead of my usual procrastination.)
There are a lot of "silly" threads lately, but I just ignore them.
Burn-out is understandable, particularly when subjects repeat - but as long as new people are finding this site, that is going to continue to happen.
As for rude postings - if I ever write something that is inappropriate, just tell me so - I'll apologize, clarify, whatever I need to do to make it right.
So, take a break when you need to - but don't leave! I'm learning too much.
Thanks, Don.