New router

[Zarathustra]

I'm "upgrading" my router. I assume that I have to remove all the old router software first, correct? I also assume that creating a Restore Point is a good idea before I start, just in case I can't get everything to work properly.

Any more tips? It's been almost two years since I bought and configured this Belkin router, but I seem to remember having to deal with the cable company software, too. Will I have to consult my cable company at all?

I'm installing a Linksys router, btw. It's not draft N, just regular old G. So it's not really an upgrade in technology. I just want to get my wife's company laptop on our network so she can work from home, but I currently can't do that because DHCP isn't working on the Belkin, and we don't have admin rights to manually assign a static IP address to her work computer (which is how we get our other three computers on the LAN). So she's unable to get onto our home network currently with the company computer.

And before I open the box on the new one . . . is there any other solution you guys can think of with the old router? Why would DHCP stop working? Is this a Belkin problem?

[DukkhaWaynhim]

Who is your ISP? If you have a high-speed modem, it may also be configured to act as a DHCP host - which apparently only your router is using, since your PCs are set with static IPs.

If your new Wireless-G Linksys router is like the one I just installed for a friend, the setup software is a cake-walk, and should get you up and running great...just make sure you already have all your ISP connection information at hand.

Although good housekeeping dictates that you should remove the Belkin software once it is no longer needed. there should be no reason for it to interfere with the installation of the new router software.

Good Luck... and if we never hear from you again, we'll assume it didn't work out!

dw

[Zarathustra]

Thanks! My ISP is Insight Broad Band. I don't know about any DHCP on the modem. I've certainly never configured that. All I know is that my internal and external IP address is different (which comes from having a router). What specific ISP info should I have at hand? DNS server IP? That kind of thing?

[wayfriend]

Just in case it needs to be said, remember that there are two DHCP services. On the cable side, the Belkin is a DHCP client, and the server is off somewhere at the cable company. On the wireless side (and ethernet if you have it) the Belkin is a DHCP server, and the clients are all your computers.

There's no conceivable reason for DHCP service to stop working. It's software, and it doesn't change. And it's working for your other computers, which means that it is generally up and running.

It should be easy to fix (if you still want to).

Make sure you're using the correct sid, channel number, and security settings on that PC. Often that's the real problem.

If not, make sure that the Belkin has enough addresses to hand out. And that it's not blocking any MAC addresses. (I can't tell you how, I don't have that model, but there's a place to do it somewhere.)

See if it supports any logs, and if so check them for DHCP errors.

In this particular case, I'd try to figure out what the problem is due to the likelyhood that you may get a new router and not fix the problem (if its the PC), or that you don't need one (because it's some dumb setting that's easily changed). The only thing I can think of that would cause this problem, that would be fixed by a new router, is that your old router only supports N computers, and you're trying to use N+1.

[DukkhaWaynhim]

As far as ISP info, the only thing you should need is to know how it connects to the cable network - i.e., whether it is StaticIP, DHCP, PPPoE, etc. Chances are unless it is more than 3 yrs old it is DHCP, so you probably won't have a problem, unless you engaged in dark setup rituals to get it to play nicely with your Belkin router.

**********
I don't know if this is contributing to your laptop connectivity problem or not, but with my own work laptop, before I can get Internet access on my home network, I have to clear the proxy settings in IE - else I get a 404 (because I don't use a proxy at home).
That means I also have to set the proxy when I get the laptop back into work - slightly annoying but worth it to be able to work while in front of the TV.

dw

[Zarathustra]

Just in case it needs to be said, remember that there are two DHCP services. On the cable side, the Belkin is a DHCP client, and the server is off somewhere at the cable company. On the wireless side (and ethernet if you have it) the Belkin is a DHCP server, and the clients are all your computers.

There's no conceivable reason for DHCP service to stop working. It's software, and it doesn't change. And it's working for your other computers, which means that it is generally up and running.

It should be easy to fix (if you still want to).

Make sure you're using the correct sid, channel number, and security settings on that PC. Often that's the real problem.

If not, make sure that the Belkin has enough addresses to hand out. And that it's not blocking any MAC addresses. (I can't tell you how, I don't have that model, but there's a place to do it somewhere.)

See if it supports any logs, and if so check them for DHCP errors.

In this particular case, I'd try to figure out what the problem is due to the likelyhood that you may get a new router and not fix the problem (if its the PC), or that you don't need one (because it's some dumb setting that's easily changed). The only thing I can think of that would cause this problem, that would be fixed by a new router, is that your old router only supports N computers, and you're trying to use N+1.

I'd love to fix the problem. But tech support was no help. We tried absolutely everything, until in the end the guy did what I wanted to do from the beginning: static IP addresses.

Since I'm getting two computers on my LAN wirelessly via static IP addresses, the correct sid, channel number, and security settings can't be the problem. No IP address would work if that were the case. And, though I've enable MAC address filtering, I've made sure these two computers are in the list. Plus, they're able to connect now, so that can't be the problem, either. The weird thing is that my main computer doesn't have a manually assigned static IP address (though it never changes). I've never had to go in an manually assign it, and it's always been able to connect. The only difference is that it has a direct connection via a Cat 5 (6?) ethernet cable, instead of wireless. So the wireless capability has to be the culprit. Yet, like I said, they're connected fine now. So I'm not sure why DHCP would treat them differently depending on how they are connected (wire vs wireless).

I have plenty of addresses available. Only three computers. I'm baffled.

[DukkhaWaynhim]

I'm sure you tried this when trblshtng the Belkin, but I have to ask: when attempting the dynamic IP on your now-static systems, did you use the /renew switch in ipconfig, then reboot? That seemed to work with me when having issues with getting a dynamic IP from my router - I hate waiting and watching the GUI version of this process waffle around without knowing what is really going on.

dw

[wayfriend]

Since I'm getting two computers on my LAN wirelessly via static IP addresses, the correct sid, channel number, and security settings can't be the problem.

Okay, you have two wireless computers working with static IPs, plus one wireless laptop from work which is not working, plus one ethernet-connected computer with a dynamic IP, for a total of 4 computers. If I understand.

What I meant was, you need to make sure that these settings (ssid, channel, authtype, and key) are correct on the laptop from work. They need to match all the others. The fact that the other two computers work mean only that the other two computers are set up correctly, it doesn't mean that the laptop from work is set up correctly.

There are also settings on the laptop from work which control which wireless networks can be connected to automatically. These settings need to be in line with what you want to do. They may be set up so that it only connects to the network identified as the one where your wife works.

And you may not have the privileges to change these, either.

And, though I've enable MAC address filtering, I've made sure these two computers are in the list.

But of course you need to add your wife's laptop, which is a third one that needs to be in the list.

The weird thing is that my main computer doesn't have a manually assigned static IP address (though it never changes). I've never had to go in an manually assign it, and it's always been able to connect.

Addresses have a lease time, for something like 30 days. As long as that computer keeps starting once every 30 days, it'll keep getting the same address. That's not unusual... and that's the explanation why.

The only difference is that it has a direct connection via a Cat 5 (6?) ethernet cable, instead of wireless. So the wireless capability has to be the culprit. Yet, like I said, they're connected fine now. So I'm not sure why DHCP would treat them differently depending on how they are connected (wire vs wireless).

Does the Belkin have a setting to serve DHCP addresses on ethernet only? Unlikely.

I have plenty of addresses available. Only three computers. I'm baffled.

Three including the wife's laptop from work? Or does that make four? See above.

I, too, think the problem is the wireless settings on your wife's laptop from work.

[Zarathustra]

Yeah, I tried release and renew at the command prompt.

A question about your work laptop: do you have the admin rights to it? Are the proxy settings something you can do with out being the admin? My wife talked to her company IP people (they like her a lot, are always doing favors for her, so I know they're not blowing her off), and they never suggested anything like this. So I assumed she didn't have the privileges to try. They were equally baffled, and were the ones who suggested a new router (which I thought was ridiculous, but wth).

If this isn't obvious already, I should say that she gets a "connected to network" message, but then it stalls with an "unable to receive IP address" message. And, I believe, she is able to get onto our neighbor's unprotected network (silly neighbors).

[wayfriend]

From your wife's laptop, have you tried using the "view wireless networks" thing? Have you seen your home network in the list of available wireless networks? Have you tried connecting to it explicitely from that page? What does it say when you do?

[Zarathustra]

Wayfriend, you make some good points. I wasn't clear enough in my post, but I'm almost positive that we had all the settings (MAC address filtering, etc.) for her work computer set right just like the others, including the security setting and encryption key. But that's a good thing to double check. And yes, it would be 4 computers total.

I have been able to get a friend's computer on our network with the manual static IP, so we've had a total of 4 before. The number shouldn't be the problem.

As far as the settings for which network it connects to automatically, we've added ours to it. And as I said in my post to Dukka just now, she is able to connect to the neighbors and initially to ours, but it stalls (for ours) at the IP address stage. But it does get a "connected to the Eddy network" message (that's us). So I know that something is happening. It is establishing some kind of link with the router. It just can't get past it to the other computers or to the Internet.

I should also say that this wasn't always a problem. In the beginning, it worked fine. Not long after (weeks?) it began to have intermittent problems. Now it never works. Like I said, I'm baffled. I've never heard of something like this. I suppose some kind of EM interference could be going on, but we've tried it in different positions. We've even had to try several different wireless network adapters for my son's desktop, going from PCI to USB. So I think the Belkin is just a piece of crap, and that's the problem.

[Zarathustra]

From your wife's laptop, have you tried using the "view wireless networks" thing? Have you seen your home network in the list of available wireless networks? Have you tried connecting to it explicitely from that page? What does it say when you do?

Yes, she can see ours as well as the neighbors. Both on hers and her work's laptops. And we've tried connecting from that page. It does connect, it just waits, and waits, and waits giving a message of, "Unable to retrieve network address" or something like that.

[DukkhaWaynhim]

I do have admin rights on my work laptop, but it sounds like the IE proxy setting isn't a problem, since you are getting stopped before the laptop ever gets issued the IP address from the Belkin router. Because the other PCs are all set with static IPs, does this mean that you have either now disabled the router DHCP to ensure the static IPs work, or that your DHCP appears to be enabled but is apparently malfunctioning? How does your Belkin work - does enabling DHCP disable static, causing all static-IP PCs to stop connecting?

I have never had a Belkin router, but I will say that my first broadband router was an SMC Barricade (wired-only), and I switched to my current Wireless-G router partly because after 1yr of use, 3 of the 4 ports on the router decided they no longer wanted to work.
2.5 years in, and I have not yet had this or any other issue (wired or wireless) with my Linksys router.

dw

[DukkhaWaynhim]

New thought - have you checked to see if there is a firmware update available for your Belkin router? If DHCP is a known issue with that particular router, Belkin may have issued a firmware update to patch it.

dw

[wayfriend]

I'm stumped now, too.

I do know that the connected but can't get addresses methods might mean the wireless config on the client.

But if it used to work, and then started failing, that points to the wireless card. If replacing that didn't help, it might be the PC itself, not supplying enough power to the card.

If the other wireless computers work, then it's not the belkin's wireless.

And if the wife's computer works fine at work, then it's not the laptop.

I punt.

But I predict (I hate to say) that a new router won't fix it. Needless to say, I hope I'm wrong. I just suspect the new laptop more than the router.

BTW, have you tried changing one of your other wireless computers to dynamic IP address, and seeing if it works? If it does or it doesn't would be an important clue. (And the fact that you're using static IPs prompts me to believe that once, long ago, it wasn't working.)

Also, is there any chance that the DHCP server is granting an address that's already in use by one of the staticly addressed computers? Usually they're given out sequentially. But this is an easy mistake to make if you staticly define the address that the DHCP server leased to you.

[DukkhaWaynhim]

To me, here is the summary so far:

All computers but the wife's laptop connect to the Belkin router, wired or wirelessly, and all through static IPs.

DHCP seems not to be working at all for the Belkin router.

The wife's laptop can see the home network wirelessly, but when attempting to connect:
a) Static addressing doesn't work because you don't have rights to change that setting on the laptop
b) Dynamic addressing doesn't work - and you believe it is because DHCP seems to not work at all on the Belkin router.

Does that sum things up correctly?

dw

[Zarathustra]

Dukka, DHCP is not disabled on the router. In fact, it works fine for my desktop via ethernet cable. I disabled the "assign me an IP address automatically" option in both my wife's laptop and my son's desktop (he connects via wireless USB adapter), and chose the "manually assign an IP address" option in the Windows Network Connections application. [Right click on Local Area Connection icon, properties, select TCP/IP, properties, etc.] But I did not do this with my own wire-connection desktop. I was careful in choosing the numbers so they don't overlap. All I had to do was choose two numbers within the range specified by the router. For all it knows, they received the IP address from it. All it cares is if they are in its range, if their MAC address matches in the filter list, if they have the correct SSID, and the correct encryption key (which they do, otherwise they wouldn't connect now). Therefore, enabling the DHCP on the router has no effect, because that's how I leave it all the time.

I did download firmware for the router last year, but it might be a good idea to check again. Do you guys know any tech message boards where I could see if others are having similar problems with this router?

Wayfriend, I'd agree with your first points if it weren't a problem that affect every single (4 now) wireless computer I try to add to the network. This happens with my son's desktop (wireless USB), my wife's laptop, her work laptop, and my friend's laptop. Yet, the problems vanish as soon as I assign a static IP address. All I would need is admin privileges on her work laptop, and I could fix it. But they won't give them to us.

I don't think the router is giving away an address already used, because it never assigns one to begin with, according to the error message--which is the same error message no matter how many computers we try to hook up.

[DukkhaWaynhim]

Dumb question, but does the Belkin router require the wired-PC to be on for any of the other connections to work? It shouldn't, but I'm grasping at straws here.

Can you administer the Belkin router from any PC on your network, or does it have to be your wired system?

dw

[Zarathustra]

Dumb question, but does the Belkin router require the wired-PC to be on for any of the other connections to work? It shouldn't, but I'm grasping at straws here.

Can you administer the Belkin router from any PC on your network, or does it have to be your wired system?

dw

No, my computer can be off. I've never tried to admin the router from the other PCs, but since it's just a matter of typing in the IP address in a browser, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to. Would it tell you anything useful if I tried?

[wayfriend]

If there was a setting on the Belkin that said, serve DHCP only on the ethernet not on the wireless, it would explain everything, right?