About that guy in the orange robe

[deer of the dawn]

The Creator of the Land is depicted as a random guy who shows up and ruin's Thomas Covenant's life (such as it was).

There is so little information, and I am intrigued. Is he a human being who somehow created an alternate universe? That would make sense to me, because it was a fundamentally flawed universe from the beginning- just the kind that we as human beings would manage to knock together.

How then does he involve other people in it, yet he himself isn't allowed to interfere? And how are the people (human and otherwise) in the Land so real, their lives so full and multifarious?

Maybe there is more in Last Chronicles. Please black out the spoilers!

[DukkhaWaynhim]

Ochre! The proper color term is ochre!

[Bran Pendragon]

The original Creation myth explains that Foul worked on his Creation unseen as the Creator finished it - sowing banes etc. So its not necessarily because of the Creator that the world is flawed.

Besides, who said that a Creator had to be perfect?

For what it's worth, I think he's clearly some order of supernatural being.

[Sill]

The old guy is like many people we meet that pull us into their twisted world. Well, we can always return the favor and mess up their creation!

Actually, the creator placed TC in his creation when he made his world, just as LF placed banes in the creation - TC is actually Lord Foul's bane as we always knew.

Just think - if you all create your own worlds - how powerless are you to intervene and redeem those for whom you are responsible - lets hope your appointed "savior" believes in your world enough to want to save it - if not, he/she might just sit by eating popcorn while your universe is turned into a living hell!

[Wyldewode]

But TC being who he was was integral to what did happen. It has been told that Foul chose TC, not the Creator. If the creator had planted someone more. . . well, predictable, in TC's place, would Foul have chosen him? Foul was certain that he would prevail when he chose TC.

Interesting topic, Deer!

[SGuilfoyle1966]

You have to assume that he was a god of some kind, and just appeared as a beggar to Covenant and Linden.
if you take his word in The Power That Preserves that Covenant was neath death from the antivenin, how then did Covenant survive.
And you don't have to take the beggar's word. the nurse and Doctors seem very surprised that he is suddenly hale and hearty.
My thing with the guy in the ochre (by that I always took to mean brown) robe, is that if he had appeared in majestic splendor, with perhaps a glowing, golden crown, Covenant would have known for sure he had gone nuts.
He also fits the archetypal image of a voice in the wilderness.
But the thing that always gets me is that the beggar appears to Covenant in the beginning and in the end of First Chronicles.
The beggar appears to Linden in the beginning of second Chronicles, but not at the end. However, Covenant appears to her at the end of second chronicles, in that same kind of "farewell" mode.

Spoiler

And nobody appears to Linden in the beginning of Final Chronicles

.

[wayfriend]

I also think that the beggar is not the Creator himself, but an avatar of the Creator that appears in Covenant's world.

[matrixman]

I find this part evocative, after the beggar is done talking to Covenant:

He leaned on his staff like an exhausted prophet, worn out with uttering visions. His staff rang curiously on the sidewalk, as if the wood were harder than cement.

It suggests the otherworldliness of the old man (and his staff).

The encounter between Covenant and the old man was one of the many things at the beginning of LFB that gripped me - and never let go - on my first read. The opening chapters of LFB remain, for me, among the best in all the Chronicles. SRD knows how to start a story.

[iQuestor]

As far as appearing as a beggar, i think was along the same parellel as the old blind man who frequently appears in Homer, most specifically in The Odyssey. In Homer, he is more a prophet; in Covenant, he is less a prophet and more like someone who is preparing him for a journey, but knows he cant tell him all he needs to know.

[MsMary]

I also think that the beggar is not the Creator himself, but an avatar of the Creator that appears in Covenant's world.

I agree.

[Linna Heartbooger]

This is the most awesomest poll ever... yet I can't decide!

However, SGuilfoyle1966 makes a pretty keen point, sheeze!

I guess one point that is significant for me is just how much "faith" Covenant (especially) and Linden put in the guy... they meditate, cogitate, wonder at, and draw hope from his words - as though his words are a major prophetic pronouncement.

deer-of-the-dawn, you should probably add "several or all of the above, in some mystical fashion" to your list of options.

[emotional leper]

This is the most awesomest poll ever... yet I can't decide!

However, SGuilfoyle1966 makes a pretty keen point, sheeze!

I guess one point that is significant for me is just how much "faith" Covenant (especially) and Linden put in the guy... they meditate, cogitate, wonder at, and draw hope from his words - as though his words are a major prophetic pronouncement.

deer-of-the-dawn, you should probably add "several or all of the above, in some mystical fashion" to your list of options.

If you were taken out of the world you know and dropped into some strange places where life or death stakes and the future of a world were thrust into your hands, hands which you personally felt were not up to the job, you'd cling to any words of hope you were given.

[Wyldewode]

I think about criticizing TC, but I wonder what I would do in his shoes.

[emotional leper]

I think about criticizing TC, but I wonder what I would do in his shoes.

I know exactly what I would do in TC's shoes.

Spoiler

PRIVMSG from HotLena4U24368

[Linna Heartbooger]

If you were taken out of the world you know and dropped into some strange places where life or death stakes and the future of a world were thrust into your hands, hands which you personally felt were not up to the job, you'd cling to any words of hope you were given.

Either that or, I guess, despair... *cough*

Yah, but I was thinking more of the 2nd Chrons, where Covenant is brazenly entering the world with the attitude of, "I know the rules of the game now. I understand the Land. I need to fight Foul again, alright I'll do it." "(Oops, crap, I don't have the percipience!)" Though his confidence does definitely waver.

[deer of the dawn]

Actually, the creator placed TC in his creation when he made his world,

... Where is that said? don't remember...

Okay, so the consensus seems to be that the guy is a god of some kind (but not God); or perhaps an avatar or manifestation of the Creator of the Land. Personally, I kinda liked the idea that he was a human being who managed to create an alternate reality, or perhaps find an alternate reality where he COULD create another world. Because that would explain better the mistakes he made (aw crud, how did HE sneak in there while I was out hanging stars and stuff??!?!)

Hm... can I edit the poll? (checks it out)

[deer of the dawn]

nope.

[[Syl]]

I can. Let me know what changes you want.

[Bran Pendragon]

Actually, the creator placed TC in his creation when he made his world,

... Where is that said? don't remember...

Okay, so the consensus seems to be that the guy is a god of some kind (but not God); or perhaps an avatar or manifestation of the Creator of the Land. Personally, I kinda liked the idea that he was a human being who managed to create an alternate reality, or perhaps find an alternate reality where he COULD create another world. Because that would explain better the mistakes he made (aw crud, how did HE sneak in there while I was out hanging stars and stuff??!?!)
Hm... can I edit the poll? (checks it out)

But its a not a given that Gods or Creators are perfect. The idea of a perfect all-knowing god is more a feature of the monotheistic faiths - many cosmologies feature gods who are sometimes falliable, especially at the hands of another god.

[lord.trax]

In mine opinion, Donaldson has put a lot of himself in the character of the creator.