Linden Avery's Very Own Discussion Topic

[Hearthcoal]

LA's name has come up quite a few times on this new board. So I thought it was time she got her own thread again.

As usual, here is a link back to the old board, just in case you want to see what some have said about her before. Linden Avery the who?

She is definitely one of those characters that everyone seems to either love or hate. Very few are indifferent to her.

[Bannor]

Linden Avery was a dynamic character. Her skills as a physician were certainly needed. Imagine being able to see into a person and diagnosing the problem-even fixing the problem from the outside! Good companion for TC.

[robo]

Where did she grow up? Does someone remember?

[amanibhavam]

in a small town very similar to that where TC lived

[Hearthcoal]

Yep, according to the TWL, "she had purposely sought a job which would bring her to a small half-rural, half-stagnant town like this one--a town like the one near which she had been born and her parents had died. "

Later she tells Dr. Berenford, "Both my parents died near a town like this... If they'd been under the care of a good Family Practioner they'd be alive today."

[Foamfollower1013]

I know Linden is a very important character, but she just seriously gets on my nerves. In the beginning I was irritated with her adjustment to the Land (I was irritated with Covenant's adjustment, too, so that's not specifically against Linden). As things progressed, I began to warm to her (very) slightly...I was actually starting to like her by WGW...and then she went and told off Covenant's Dead. That made me so mad I started yelling at her (out loud...my family thought I had gone nuts )...and I never quite forgave her for it. Plus, I didn't like it that she seemed to have more of a role in saving the Land than Covenant did.

I just don't like her. She bugs me.

~Foamy~[/i]

[amanibhavam]

well, this is the genius of SRD - he makes us accept the most unbelievable characters; take Angus Thermopyle for instance; and then there is Linden of course - she is really annoying, I mean, grating on one's nerves constantly

[Vexis Larseker]

I thought she was a sympathetic character, having had such a difficult background. I agree that she was out of line when she verbally assaulted Covenant's dead. However, TC should have confided in Linden and told her what he intended to do (IMO).

I always thought that this was one of the recurring themes of the Chronicles: the effects of witholding knowledge from another. On the one hand, we have Kevin concealing the Seven Wards because he feels that power without the wisdom to handle it is dangerous. On the other hand, Mhoram castigates himself for witholding the knowledge of Desecraton from Trell, because he feels that Trell might have been able to weather his crisis if he had understood his peril.

[Hearthcoal]

That is a very interesting idea, Vex. It's fascinating, in a way, to watch the consequences when one person witholds information from someone else.

Communication: it's a wonderful thing. I suppose it gets back to the truth that knowledge is power. To inform someone is to empower him.

We often "fail" to inform others because we undervalue their need to know or we fear the consequences of their knowing more than we fear the consequences of their ignorance.

[Guest]

Linden is most certainly one of those charaters you either love or hate. In many respects she is much like the Lady Terissa of Morgan only more complex and not as annoying.

The bottom line is that the Creator called it right, it did require the skills of Linden Avery to heal the land, which is essentially what the second chronicles is about.

The battle between Thomas Covenant (wild magic and protector of the arch of time) and Lord Foul (Despiser, Soulcrusher, Fangthane, etc.) may continue throughout eternity. It was never TCs role to heal the land, he is a defender of the land, which is exactly what he did in the original chronicles and did again in the second chronicles so that Linden could heal the land.

In spite of all that I still thought Linden was a bit whimpy (unlike the First), if she had have been a man she would have been a wussey. However, she did come though in the end.

[danlo]

..I take back everything I said about her. Was there ever a topic about Linden and Lord Foul? Now Gibbon seemed 2 know alot about her but was she a wild card that Foul really didn't know about? Was he aware of her when she popped on2 the Watch w/TC? Could he detect her earth(health)sense, or was it that her earth(health)sense wasn't fully developed and he couldn't. Did he ever? Did Gibbon communicate her existence 2 Foul? Do we know? Or is this just another Raver acting independantly?

[arwenavery]

shes unfortunatly everything i didnt want her to be!! the saviour of the land , ok so covenant goes through a few years as the saviour , whines a little along the way but generally he had nice companions to make up for it , he was the anti hero ...linden is the anti heros anti hero !!!! i wanted TC to whoop her ass when she offended The dead in andelain ( and please , please , please , if theres a movie let me be LInden.....if they cast as well as LOTR:) ...sorry reverted back to hormonly charge teenager ..


let teh third chrons not involve lindens new love interest CHad!! or something!!!

[danlo]

[Prince of Amber]

I loved Linden - I really did, and T.C was obviously smitten with her, she did heal the Land in the end, so we can forgive her a few bad deeds and black moods can't we? I mean, she never forgave herself. So let's cut her some slack.

She had a dramatic impact on the Ur-Lord - I remember how quickly he felt the need to confess his rape of Lena, almost as soon as they were in the Land together.
Wouldn't our favorite Sandgorgon have had a much smaller part if she hadn't planted the name in the T.C mind?

Distinctly, he articulated one clear word:
'Nom.'

Still send shivers down my spine.

[Bannor]

Hail, Prince of Amber! That was my favorite part in the whole book! I was going to go to sleep at the end of that chapter (you need a lot of sleep to face 4th graders), but when that word came at the end of that chapter, I forgot all about 4th graders.

[Skyweir]

I have to agree with Foamy re: Linden .. she was a character that grated on my nerves too and was at times as big a jerk as TC could be. But having said that it was good to see someone care for TC in the way he needed and even deserved to be cared for. TC was in definite need of some TLC .. I warmed to her as the book continued and was devastated when they were seperated in the end via TC's death. His ring on her finger in our world was a nice touch .. albeit potentially cheesey.

I am not sure TC could have disclosed his plans to LA .. even he wasnt sure what he would do. The very fact that a lot of their relationship is stiffled by their individual desire to over-analyse each others actions and motives .. left me the reader often frustrated and wishing they would indeed communicate their thoughts to secure clarification of their highly subjective perceptions.

Having said that it is easy to objectively assert disclosure as the prime and desired virtue .. but subjective elements always come into play in any determination governing disclosure. For example .. what prevented LA from disclosing facts about her past .. 1. pain 2. fear and dread of revisiting that period of her life 3. fear of losing what she had secured by leaving these things unsaid. Where there is a duty to warn or inform .. we are compelled by this duty to act and disclose relevant information as required ..

Having said that, in Trells case .. Mhoram may have owed him a duty to warn him of the impending danger which would come upon him and the Land .. but if I remember this part of the book .. wasnt he concerned re: the danger or harm to the Land and its people if he made known this truth? [/b]

[aliantha]

Vexis, I like your idea that one of the themes of TCTC is what happens when one human being withholds information from another. Of course, that's one of the classic ways to set up tension in a work of fiction, but you're right, SRD uses it a lot. He does the same thing in Mordant's Need, too...and the Gap novels, come to think of it....

Anyhow...I like Linden. I've always liked Linden. Of course she's annoying -- name, if you can, a main character in an SRD novel who's not annoying. She should not have yelled at TC's Dead, but given what she knew about the situation -- since TC saw fit to withhold so much information from her (there's that theme again...) -- what she did made sense. And whoever it was who said that TC was the Land's defender -- he was never the Land's healer, Linden was -- that's right on, too.

[Vexis Larseker]

I think it is a theme that resurfaces again and again. But I guess it's also a story device. Ostensibly, the location of the One Tree or the purpose of Vain were not revealed because t would cause the desired ends to not occur, but I'm not sure if SRD is trying to make a point about the withholding of knowledge or is just using it as an excuse to keep the story going. And he wouldn't be the only writer to do so. Does anyone here read Robert Jordan? Someone once posted in the Jordan newsgroup saying (something along the lines of) two thirds of the loose ends in the Wheel of Time series could be tied up by having all of the main characters in a room together for 30 minutes.

I agree with you, Skyweir, that Coveneant did not know what would occur when he gave Foul his ring, but he did know that that was his intention, as he confessed it to Linden after she confromted his Dead. If he'd told her earlier, perhaps she would not have been so angry. But you're right about the different reasons she had about concealing her past, and he may have wanted to conceal his intentions so as not to frighten her.

Mhoram did withold his knowledge of desecration from Trell (and the other Lords for that matter) because he was afraid of it being used. My statement was based on what he said to Tohrm in the aftermath of Trell's Ritual, where he said that perhaps he should have told Trell, because then Trell would have known his danger. And it is after this, that he reveals his knowledge to the other Lords.

This is a great topic!

[Guest]

well, there is something to this withholding of information stuff: the most annoying thing about Covenant was to me that never ever told anybody anything about himself, his disease, his own world, etcetera; granted, this might be because he thinks he is dreaming and he does not owe any explanation to any characters in a dream - but still, so many frustrations could be spared if he simply talked

[Skyweir]

True .. and Vexis in fact .. I tend to agree with the points you have raised .. I also would have been spared the very frustration all complain about re: the internal nature of the dialogue .. and lack of communicated thoughts . etc etc ..

I simply pose a contrary arguement to explorepossible reasons for non-disclosure ..

Now TC was undoubtedly self concerned .. and a lot of his perceived responsibility depended on his personal world view .. ie he felt responsible for all manner of woes even those sooo remotely associated with him .. no average person would accept such responsibility.

He hadnt made up his mind about his role re:Foul till he returned to Adelain and the encounter with Hile Troy and Sunder and Hollian) .. but I am not sure even then he had completely made up his mind what to do .. Even so it was no excuse for LA to rag on TC's dead .. infact she was angry because of what Crazy Kev told her ... and she had no clue what TC intended .. and at that time I dont believe he did either .. Clearly it dominated his mind as they left Andelain .. but he was acting on faith .. not knowing for a surety what the end result would be .. and he did not want to distress LA any further .. not that was really possible ..

sometimes the concerns that dominated TC's thoughts were just not on the mark at all ..

My overriding point is that disclosure of his plans may or may not have prevented LA from ranting at the specters .. and may have relieved all her concerns .. but I sincerely doubt it .. she is a woman afterall .. a woman in love with him .. at that point I doubt that any disclosure would have alleviated her fears .. of being seperated from TC .. the man she loved .. (an entirely subjective mind set ¬ I would hazard to guess .. one incapable of an objective appraisal of the issue at hand)