Joan Macht Covenant

[Evans Caamora]

After reading both ROTE and FR, I've decided to re-read both the first and second chronicles to get a better understanding of the entire series. It didn't take me long to find something quite intriguing after reading only the first couple of chapters of LFB. Did you folks know that Joan's profession in the 'real world' was a Horse Breaker. Take this passage:

During those months of writing and then of waiting, they lived on her income. She, Joan Macht Covenant, was a quiet woman who expressed more of herself with her eyes and the tone of her skin than she did with words. Her flesh had a hue of gold which make her look as warm and precious as sylph or succuba of joy. But she was not large or strong, and Thomas covenant felt constantly amazed at the fact that she earned a living for them by breaking horses. The term breaking, however, did not do justice to her skill with animals. There were no tests of strength in her work, no bucking stallions with mad eyes and foaming nostrils. It seemed to Covenant, that she did not break horses; she seduced them. Her touch spread calm over their twitching muscles. Her murmuring voice relaxed the tension in the angle of their ears. When she mounted them bareback, the grip of her legs made the violence of their brute fear fade. And whenever a horse burst from her control, she simply slid from its back and left it alone until the spasm of its wildness had worn away.

Anyway, it make me think of maybe some possibilities down the road as the plot of the 'last chronicles' begins to weave its tapestry.

[Mr. Broken]

That could have dire repercussions if the Ramen were to find out.

[Ur Dead]

Will the Ranyhyn play a role? Good reminder.

[Blackhawk]

Joan was more of a horse whisperer than a breaker of horses, she seduced the horses rather than breaking them. .there certainly are possibilities of her being chosen by Ranyhyn or something of that nature in the future, that was on my mind also. ...lol now im going to have to get FR so i dont have to talk around blind corners.

[wayfriend]

If you're going to have this thread in this forum, please do not discuss anything from Runes or FR. Your mod can move this to the FR forum, if you wish. Re-examining the first two chronicles in light of the last chronicles should be done there, probably.

See Read Jay's Lips : *No* Last Chronicles Spoilers

[[Syl]]

So far, there haven't been any spoilers, and the discussion has been centered around a character and facts firmly established in the first two chronicles. If it moves beyond vague conjecture and tenuous connections, I'll move the thread.

[Linna Heartbooger]

So this brings up an interesting point... I don't see how anyone could train a horse without EVER establishing dominance over it!! I kinda saw that passage from LFB as "literary license," but it also bugs the heck out of me!

I trained ponies growing up, and while maintaining a calm attitude and treating them gently was extremely important (all 3 that I raised myself from foals never bucked when I "broke them in" and trained them, I think), establishing dominance was essential.

Establishing dominance over a horse could be done in one short session without any particular fear or thrashing on the part of horse or handler, but it was essential. How could "calmly sliding off a horse's back if it ever did burst from your control" (rewarding that behavior!) possibly help?!?!?

Admittedly, I haven't read any of the popular "horse whisperer"-type books, though I did gather an eclectic mix of methods which included ways of treating a horse as though you were another horse who is his friend.

That's just my rant! I've been wanting to get that off my chest for awhile!

But I mean, I see how dominance/control could be related to "seduction." Just not in horse-training. Literary license, I say.

[SoulBiter]

Good Post!

Ive trained horses as well and one of the most important things I learned is that, with horses, either you were in charge or they were. So you had to establish dominance and you had to maintain that dominance so that in the horses eyes, you are the leader. You also had to be able to recognize the signs of when your horse was doing little things to pick away at your dominance.

Even horse whisperers have to go through the trouble of establishing dominance so that you can get into a routine where the horse is learning and accepting your direction rather than fighting with you.

[[Syl]]

The difference between the Ramen and the Ringthane (or Bloodguard, Lords, what have you), then.

And if you're discussing themes, don't forget that Covenant is allergic to horses, or their blood, at least.

[drew]

I love the way her name sounded the first time I heard it.

Joan Macht Covenant.

Joan, Mocked Covenant.

[amanibhavam]

Macht means, obviously, power, might in German.

Spoiler

Interesting echoes in FR...

[Blackhawk]

by picking away at your dominance do you mean taking a bite out of your ass when you turn your back? or running up on you and knocking you down with their chest? Ive seen that happen and ive had a pony try to bite my shoulder before, luckily he got me with his lips first and i was able to get away with a torn shirt. I never thought horses would chase you ..but they will LOL..my friend was in a field getting some wood...uh..let me specify wood for the fire that night and 5 horses came trotting up and he started running and dropped the wood and the horses broke after him and actually tried to cut him off from running back to the main fence, i have Brahma bull stories too but I'll stick to the topic of horses for now, I can imagine trying to work with an animal that big and train it. seems to be a few horse trainers here, so im sure you have run into an untrainable horse? something you cannot dominate? what happens to that horse when its spirit cant be broken? do they punish horses for acting like Ranyhyn in our World?? hehe..

[amanibhavam]

Two quite related posts from the GI for those who are interested:

horses

[Skyweir]

i only have one word to say concerning Joan ..

blech!!

yes arguably not a word .. but blech .. nevertheless

.. a ball-buster .. and not in a good way!! if there is a good way .. she did not know it

[Lepus]

I'm inclined to agree - Joan seems to be more of a device than a character. She is just something for TC to react to - and what little we do get of he character is not amazingly sympathetic.

[Menolly]

Be Welcome to the Watch, Lepus. Be Well Come and True.

I look forward to reading more posts of yours.

[Lepus]

Why, thank you Menolly!

[matrixman]

Lina, you do bring up an aspect of the story that isn't talked about much. I just accepted SRD's description of the practice of horse training at face value and never looked further into it after reading the Chronicles. (Heh, I guess for the same reason that I didn't suddenly want to learn more about divorce laws after Joan's split with Covenant.)

After reading your post, I can now see how SRD might have gotten it wrong about training horses. Perhaps his research into that field simply wasn't as thorough as his research into leprosy, though he seems to understand horses themselves - at least enough to have created something as convincing as the Ranyhyn. Or did he get them wrong too? You tell me, as I don't know much about horses either. In fact, just about all that I know of them I've learned from reading the Chronicles. So if SRD has been telling lies about horses, it's up to you to straighten me out.

Well, I do know that real horses don't have stars on their foreheads.

[jwaneeta]

Did you folks know that Joan's profession in the 'real world' was a Horse Breaker.

Good catch!

[Menolly]

Why, thank you Menolly!

You are welcome, Lepus.
If you stop in The Summonsing, and post in the "Welcome new members" thread (or whatever it is officially called, it's at the top of the forum), you'll get a lot more greetings.