Hile Troy

[jademonkey58]

I know at the end of the Illearth War, Troy was taken by Caerriol Wildwood to be turned into his apprentice Forestal. (Actually, he was turned into a tree, yet another thing that bothers me. Was he turned into a tree so that me may learn about their being, or was his body turned into a tree while his being went elsewhere?)

Anyway, in The Power that Preserves, when Covenant is in Morinmoss, it makes numerous allusions to an "apprentice Forestal". Is this Hile Troy?

It may be obvious, but I remember just having trouble believing it. I hated Troy had to leave but I remember being happy that he could stay in the beauty of the Land, since he appreciated it so much.

[matrixman]

For what it's worth, it did also strike me as curious that Troy had to be turned into a tree as the "first step" in becoming an apprentice to Wildwood. It could be simply as you say: Troy needed first to experience literally what it was like to be a tree. I guess it makes a certain poetic sense. On the other hand...Did Troy's "soul" go elsewhere while his body was a tree? Good question. I hope it did, because it would depressing to think he was stuck as a tree for years, maybe decades. But that's just the selfish human in me talking. I value my identity.

[shadowbinding shoe]

Hey, what's wrong with being a tree? It's obvious from the books that becoming a tree would be the greatest thing ever. Every character (except for those pesky ravers of course) is nostalgic about and longs for the return of the golden age of the sentient forest. Becoming one with the One Forest! What better fate?

[amanibhavam]

I see that we must tread carefully here as evidently the OP has not read the 2nd Chronicles yet, so no spoilers.

Anyway it feels kinda logical to me that to become a Forestal, a being whose first kinds were originally created by the common consciousness of the One Forest one has to become a tree first and go through the process of awakening.

[Relayer]

Yep. That would be pretty awesome. Way better than being mutated into the Amnion collective consciousness

Welcome to the Watch jademonkey!

[wayfriend]

Welcome, jademonkey!

I don't think Troy was a tree for long. I believe that seven years later he was, indeed, in Morinmoss.

As for the appropriateness --- it was a good way to shut down a ring-weilding Troy and park him on the side, while Wildwood dealt with more immediate matters, was it not?

I think if the idea was to experience being a tree, Wildwood would have turned him into a tree, and not a stump. No, I think it was Wildwood's way of first removing his power and second saving him for a bit. He's not what you and I would call nice. Troy probably stayed a stump until Wildwood put together a way to handle him, not much longer.

[Blackhawk]

Welcome, jademonkey!

I don't think Troy was a tree for long. I believe that seven years later he was, indeed, in Morinmoss.

As for the appropriateness --- it was a good way to shut down a ring-weilding Troy and park him on the side, while Wildwood dealt with more immediate matters, was it not?

I think if the idea was to experience being a tree, Wildwood would have turned him into a tree, and not a stump. No, I think it was Wildwood's way of first removing his power and second saving him for a bit. He's not what you and I would call nice. Troy probably stayed a stump until Wildwood put together a way to handle him, not much longer.

I agree, Wildwood would have turned him into a gilden if he was going to let him know the glory of being a tree, a stump would be a nasty way of saying...stay here human..your not worthy of a tree, you can be a dead stump to learn what your kind has done. then he came back and made him take on the burden so he could pass away into a stump or transform into a huge tree to hibernate.

[Mr. Broken]

We are led to believe that the tree's are capable of understanding, and communicating not only with each other but also with the Forrestals, they feel pain, loss, and betrayal. They also posess a strong basic instinct towards survival, and need for revenge. I trust that Troys short stint as a tree was just his initiation into arborial society. A getting to know you excercise.

[jademonkey58]

Alright, thank for the greting by the way. I haven't read the Second Chronicles yet, but recently heard that they were really good, so I'm going to jump on that ASAP.

But I agree. What better way to experience the needs and abilities of a tree than to become one and experience it first hand.

Also, Wildwood would be pretty busy, so turning Hile into a stump would be a good way to put him on the back burner.

Overall, I'm glad that Try was turned into a tree. All through the Illearth Wars, he talked about the beauty of the Land and how he would miss it if he left, but got to become part of it.

[jwaneeta]

I remember SRD saying somewhere (probably Gradual Interview) that the stump interlude was Hile Troy's "initiation" as an apprentice forestal. And for my part, I always thought the intitiation would have lasted longer if Foul's Winter hadn't happened: it was all hands on deck at that point to meet the threat, and Caerroil Wildwood sent Troy/CC into action early.

He was new and was able to keep Morinmoss alive, but only barely. And I believe he wasn't yet at the point where he could assume a human appearance again, so he was just a cloud of spangly green gleams when he tried to aid Covenant.

[shadowbinding shoe]

I thought the reason why he couldn't do much in the Covenant-Raver confrontation was because it took place outside the forest. The Forestals' powers exist only amongst their trees.

[jwaneeta]

Yeah, I think helping Covenant outside the borders of Morinmoss was a stretch, but it also seems that within the forest itself Caer-Caveral was having a tough time coming up to scratch.

TC was first lured into Morinmoss by the same "defying spirit" that helped the forest resist Foul's winter. But it was a limited resistance, and at one point the Unfettered One reflects:

It was as if the ancient Forestals had returned, bringing with them the wood's old knowledge of itself.

Yet even in its secret heart Morinmoss was not impervious to the Despiser's fell influence ... If a Forestal had indeed returned to Morinmoss, he lacked the potency of his olden predecessors.

This was before Covenant got healed, left the forest, and fell in with Raver!Triock.

Later, after drugging Covenant, the raver clearly identifies the Forestal of Morinmoss:

"What is it?" Covenant lurched to his feet and stood trembling, hardly able to contain the panic in his muscles. "What's happening?"

"It is the voice of a Forestal." Triock spoke simply, but every angle of his inflection expressed execration. "Garroting Deep has sent Caer-Caveral to Morinmoss. But he cannot claim you. I can -- "his voice shook -- "I cannot permit it."

So Caer-Caveral was the one who'd been defending Morinmoss, but I figure he wasn't able to do it with full strength because he was still a n00b. And this is just my own supposition, but I think Wildwood sent him there early because it was an emergency.

[shadowbinding shoe]

Second Chronicle SPOILERS:






I'm warning you...






Last chance not to find out something (SPOILERS ) about the second chronicles





I wonder, does the fact that he was originally not a forestal but a human being account for his ability to leave Morinmoss and go defend Andalain once the Sunbane began manifesting? There are no forests when Covenant returns to the Land and yet Caer Caveral (what does the name mean anyway?) continues to function as am able, powerful forestal.

[amanibhavam]

Please do not put 2nd Chronicles spoilers in this thread as the original poster has not read them yet.

[jwaneeta]

I know at the end of the Illearth War, Troy was taken by Caerriol Wildwood to be turned into his apprentice Forestal. (Actually, he was turned into a tree, yet another thing that bothers me. Was he turned into a tree so that me may learn about their being, or was his body turned into a tree while his being went elsewhere?)

This leads me to another thought: Toward the end of TPTP, Caer-Caveral is able to reach out through the Colossus and zap people in Covenant's defence, with green flame "that had nothing in common with Lord Fouls Emerald Illearth Stone."

Since the Colossus embodies the will and sentience of the trees, Caer-Caveral -- like all Forestals -- would need to be a true part of that consciousness to do such a thing. So I think the tree-stump period was probably not just an initiation into arboreal life (love that phrase!) but an actually process of blending his identity with that of his larger leafy society.

As a side note, I've always liked the impression of greater awareness in Caer-Caveral, even when he was reduced to a bunch of spangly gleams. He retained a memory of Covenant from his time as Troy (and his solicitous way of directing the spiders to bind up Covenant's unmarked forehead is even indicative of remorse), but he also seemed to have a much clearer sense of Covenant's central importance to the Land's Fate. It was pretty bold to spangle between TC and Raver!Triock -- he must have known he'd get a beatdown.

[Unfettered One]

Caer Caveral (what does the name mean anyway?)

Caer means Fortress (in Welsh maybe?), but I have no idea what Caveral means. I remember looking it up years ago when I first read TIW. Maybe I should Google it.

[jwaneeta]

That's cool, Unfettered! I should've known that from Mony Python, at least, but I never made the Caer connection.

[Sill]

Caer means fortress and Cae is modern Welsh for field.

[jademonkey58]

I never thought about Troy being released earlier because of Lord Foul's winter. Good point though.

Also, thanks for the spoiler warning. It helped.

I like the concept of the Forestals in general. I just wish that there was more than just one...and a half (If this changes at all in the future, just remember I already ordered the first part of the next chronicles and don't want to know yet.). It just reminds me of Pirates of the Caribbean:

"You know, the problem with being the last of anything, by and by, there'll be none left at all."

Cause thus far, all we have to base Forestals upon is Wildwood. Maybe the others were less violent or something, but now the way of the Forestals that included that is gone.