A question about Roger

[Unfettered One]

Ok, so if you've read my last couple of posts, you know I'm re-reading FR right now.

My question is: How does Roger (as TC) know so much about what's going on in the world at any given moment? Some examples.

* He knew about Linden's encounter with Esmer before the trip back in time
* He knows detailed info on what's going on with Berek and his army as they approach.

He just seems to know way more about the Land, its history, and what is happening at any given moment than someone who's only been there a few weeks.

So, is it his Elohim - hand? Is he a fast learner? Has he been in the land frequently like Jeremiah's story?

All I have is questions... no answers.

[shadowbinding shoe]

The Hand

The Elohim can assume any form they want. To do this they must be capable of delving into what those things are. When that Elohim visited Mithil Stonedown to warn the people of the coming dangers they'll face he looked like one of them. If they hadn't known they didn't know him they'd be fooled. That means the form is more than skin deep. Being incarnate Earthpower they must be able to absorb whatever the Land remembers of the past (or present.)

[dlbpharmd]

I think SRD addressed this in the GI - IIRC Roger had plenty of time to learn all that he needed to know from Kastenessen.

[sweetbread]

I think SRD addressed this in the GI - IIRC Roger had plenty of time to learn all that he needed to know from Kastenessen.

Agreed. I think his ability to travel back and forth through time has a lot to do with his ability to "study up" on what's going down...

[Mr. Broken]

We dont know really that it took any time for Roger to learn, not only the history of the Land, but the powerful fiery lore he used during the big fight in FR. He's carrying part of Kastenessen, as a part of himself, I would be surprised to find out that his new knowledge was not part of that exchange. This is what started my thread about what happened to Rogers other hand? What did Kastenessen require in return?

[earthbrah]

I agree.

I tend to think that Roger's knowledge of the Land as well as his knowledge of the power he gained from Kasty was more or less simultaneous in the exchange.

And yes: What did Kasty get out of the bargain? What did he require to maim himself so? Or is that just part of his anguished existence, like Esmer and his apparent aid and betrayal mandate?

I'd really like to have a scene described about that exchange, now that I think about it. How sick would that be!

[Mr. Broken]

I suspect Kastenessen may covet Rogers mortality.

[sweetbread]

I suspect Kastenessen may covet Rogers mortality.

Interesting....

[Mr. Broken]

I also believe that the other Elohim would go to drastic measures to keep him from ending himself, death after all doe's not seem to be a part of their Wurd.

[Revan]

Remember when Linden went to heal Covenant of his vacancy in the Second Chronicles... or when she thought after he enter the Banefire to end her life... or when she called Findail from Covenant's room at the beginning of White Gold Wielder... He knew about it, he could read her thoughts and attempted to prevent them, he could hear her call him from what is an impossible thing to do through tons of stone...

The Elohim, from what i gather, can read and hear at incredible distances.

[Mr. Broken]

Like the Ranyhynn.

[Hellbinder]

The more of these threads i read and the comments from SRD himself the more i believe that he has lost site of the "Story" and is caught up into the telling of the Narrative in a proper way.

What you have here is one train wreck in the story after the next that need vauge ambiguous explainations or some miracle work around answer after the next.

[Seppi2112]

I can understand the confusion Hellbinder, but

a) the story makes a lot more sense second time through, like every book in the series has so far.

b) we're only halfway through and we don't know what's an 'inconsistency' and what's PLOT

c) the story inherently deals with time, which is a natural extension of the previous books (the ONLY extention left after WGW if you ask me), and so we should expect a little bit of jumbled-ness as we go through because (in attempting to address the essential paradox of the entire series) SRD has to confront the paradox head-on, which is frustrating as all paradoxes are.

[earthbrah]

Seppi,

I agree with your c) below. I also think that this is the reason that SRD waited so long to start writing this series. It was this most central element to this last series of books that made him fear writing it.

[minmei900]

But what about the soliloquy Roger starts while drunk in chapter 3? He starts talking about the "o-rigi-nal" Halfhand, Berek. He goes on (by himself) about Damelon, Loric, and finally Kevin with breathtaking detail about their despair, more than I think Kastenessen ever could have.

"After which Berek tried to escape. He ran for Mount Thunder. That scene shows his despair. Or maybe it was just self-pity."

"It all started there... Even Foul's plotting started there-- in the Land anyway."

"Poor Kevin," Covenant sighed unkindly. "He didn't recognize Foul because no one in the Land knew who the Despiser was."

"That," Covenant finished in a tone of sodden triumph, "is what made Kevin crazy enough... ...he couldn't think of anything else bad enough to give him what he deserved."

Roger describes it like I can imagine Lord Foul would, before he came to be Lord Foul.

I'm sorry - this seems to be a hint-and-a-half about Roger may become, or at least what he'll be a part of.

I remember (maybe inaccurately) in ROTE where Roger tells Linden he's the son of a leper and a victim. "I can't believe you haven't guessed who I am," he says or something close to that.

Triumph at Kevin's fall? The disgust he has for Caerroil and the Elohim?

How about TC in the 2nd chronicles telling Foul - "You're even beginning to look like me." Foul doesn't have to be TC to look like him. Covenant has another blood relative other than Elena.

Maybe just a silly theory. But something seems odd about Roger that is not explained well yet. Yet.

[earthbrah]

That's a very interesting take, minmei. I like where your head's at.

[Relayer]

Well, it would be a way of explaining the "Covenant becomes Foul" statement...

[shadowbinding shoe]

I like this theory, but would there be any free will left for any of the characters in the series? Foul as Roger would know all the history beforehand

[minmei900]

Once you start the whole time travel stuff, then the characters' knowledge gets a little wanky...

The Theomach doing things in Berek's time after seeking after knowledge for millennia and finding out what Berek's guardian _did_ so he can go back and _do_ it...

Or maybe it's the frustration of knowing what may/will happen that makes him so despite-ful.

[Rigel]

I don't know; I have a hard time seeing Foul act the way he does if he knows what will happen (ie his defeats).

Put another way, if Roger becomes Foul, and goes back in time to live through the land as Foul, then he would have *massive* opportunities to break the Arch by changing things.