Fatal Revenant: Part 1, Chapter 2, Difficult Answers

[earthbrah]

The second chapter in Fatal Revenant, Difficult Answers, is close to twice the length of the first chapter. While the first chapter used metaphor to pave the way for the naïve to find revelation through illusion and truth, the second chapter takes that paving several steps further. Linden and we the readers are those naïve, and much is revealed in the difficult answers provided in this chapter. It’s just that what gets revealed is not exactly what was being sought after…

After the reunion in Revelstone’s entrance, Linden needs to get away from the situation to think, and has Mahrtiir lead her up to Glimmermere. She had been given back the two loves of her life, only to have them refuse her in a way that hurt her more deeply than she was prepared for. That refusal caused stress and confusion to mount in her, darkness to close around her insides. So she returns to the one place where she had experienced “perhaps the first joy that she had ever known” (23). She sends Mahrtiir away before reaching the lake, goes for a dip, gets physically cleansed and healed, then ascends a hill to summon Esmer.
She calls him a couple times, and he finally comes (either to her summons, or for some other reason; nevertheless, he arrives).

However, he arrives with about three score ur-viles, and about half as many Waynhim. The other ur-viles and Waynhim who fought against the Demondim the previous day arrive as well. The creatures all begin to bark in their bizarre tongues. Linden begins to question Esmer, believing that he owes her, that his betrayal has outweighed his aid and that he needs to even the score (and by the way, I just love the way Esmer states that Linden’s manner of speech about keeping score is “unfamiliar” to him). She asks a series of questions, and Esmer gives responses, many of which do not seem to relate to the questions at all. I will offer the questions and responses in summarized, abbreviated form (and pardon me for not quoting comprehensively throughout):

Q1: Why are the ur-viles and Waynhim with you, Esmer? Why did you bring them?
R1: I enabled them to come with me so they can serve you. I didn’t bring them from the abysm of time.

Q2: How will they serve me?
R2: The creatures perceive my peril, and wish to guard against me. They wish to stand with the other ur-viles and Waynhim who have discovered a purpose worthy of service. (These were all answered by Esmer in question format.)

Q3: What do you gain by bringing them to me? Are you listening to Cail’s influence, or to Kastenessen?
R3: (Esmer flinches, as if from an internal struggle, then resumes his scorn and responds) I owe you, so I brought them from the past. They will ward you and Revelstone from the Demondim better than the Haruchai can. (Wait, but you also said that you didn’t bring them from the abysm of time, so how are the past and the abysm of time different?)

Q4: That tells me what they can do, not why you brought them here. What kind of harm do you have in mind this time?
R4: Accusing me does nothing. ‘Good cannot be accomplished by evil means’, yet that hasn’t stopped you from doing the things you’ve done. Why should I be judged more strictly?

Q5: Who possessed Anele at the Verge of Wandering? Who used him to talk to the Demondim? Who filled him with all that fire? (suddenly, at these questions, the creatures fall silent—finally a question that grabs their attention?)
R5: (Esmer cowers, ducking his head; creatures advance a few steps as if to hear better) That was Kastenessen.

Q6: so the skurj…
R6: …are the beasts that Kastenessen was Appointed to contain.

Q7: Did Kastenessen command the Demondim to allow TC and Jeremiah to reach Revelstone?
R7: (at this question, Esmer launches into his long story of the Viles’ history) Your ignorance keeps you from understanding. Do you not know that the Viles were once a lofty race? They roamed the Land, yet inhabited the Lost Deep in majestic caverns. There they devoted their knowledge and lore to the makings of beauty. For an age they spurned the banes in Gravin Threndor—no ill was known of them even in Berek’s time.

However, they became corrupted thusly: The Despiser’s hand reached out to the Sarangrave long before coming to the Upper Land. Ravers emerged from the malevolence of Lifeswallower. So the One Forest was decimated. The trees created the Forestals and bound an Elohim in the Colossus. When the Colossus waned, the Despiser gathered the Ravers to his service in Ridjeck Thome. They began to twist the hearts of the Viles. Unable to enter the Lost Deep (because of the persistent interdict of the Colossus), the Ravers met the Viles who roamed east of Landsdrop. Slowly, the Ravers taught the Viles self-loathing—they began by sharing their hatred of trees and Forestals; but all contempt eventually turns upon the contemptuous.

Samadhi evaded the interdict south of the Southron Range, and instigated war via the King. The trees dwindled and the Colossus was diminished. When the Viles began making the Demondim in the Lost Deep, the Ravers couldn’t interfere (because the interdict still remained). The Viles sought to make their self-loathing impotent by creating the Demondim. Thus, the Demondim were free of their creators’ stain. The Demondim held themselves apart from the Viles in renunciation. Over time, the Demondim were also corrupted: their proximity to the Illearth Stone and the whisperings from the Sarangrave finally led the Demondim to the same fate as their makers. Having followed in their makers’ footsteps, they made the ur-viles and Waynhim. Even though the Demondim loremaster was later slain by Loric’s krill, the damage was done.

Since the Demondim were made with an aspect of mortality they, unlike the Viles, came into the Despisers direct service. They acted as extensions of the Ravers on the Upper Land, themselves not being spurned by the interdict. They consistently sought treachery that ultimately broke Kevin’s heart, leading to the Ritual of Desecration. Failing to comprehend the Despiser’s disdain, they perished in the Ritual that their actions helped bring about.

The ur-viles and Waynhim, being completely enfleshed, followed their own Weirds. Mortality inspired them to reinterpret their Weirds, and their allegiances were susceptible to change.

Q8: (Linden frustratedly reiterates Q7)
R8: Are you ignorant of the fact that the Cavewights were also once friendly to the people of the Land? I want you to understand such beings, to comprehend that ‘that which appears evil need not have been so from the beginning, and need not remain so until the end.’ Since you’ve gotten all your knowledge of such creatures from the Haruchai, you obviously don’t know that they retained the knowledge of their making. The ur-viles continued to work in the Deep, creating things that would alter the fate of their kind, the Land and the Earth.

Q9: Wait, but Stave said…said that much of the lore of the Viles and Demondim endured to them, and much did not. They created no descendants.
R9: The Haruchai know little. You knew Vain. Can you doubt what I’m saying? The ur-viles created other things too. They did not stop with Vain; they were not yet satisfied. Therefore they have made…manacles.

Q10: Why? Who are the manacles for?
R10: (Esmer shakes his head. The creatures started barking again.)

Q11: What are they saying?
R11: They debate the interpretation of their Weirds. Some insist that I explain further. I will not. I have balanced the scale between us.

Q12: How did you convince these creatures to come with you? Why have they set aside their long enmity?
R12: (with exaggerated patience) I offered the ur-viles the chance to aid the purpose which started when they made Vain. I offered the Waynhim the chance to join with their few remaining kind, so they might serve the Land once more. I required that they set aside their enmity in exchange for my service.
Wildwielder, I have given answers to the questions you’ve asked. I must leave, or else kick the bejeezus out of the Haruchai who approaches.

Q13: What is the shadow on the hearts of the Elohim? What does that mean? Why didn’t they stop Kastenessen from breaking free?
R13: Though the Elohim hold that they are equal to all things, they are not. If they were, they would not fear the Worm being roused.
They saw no need to preserve Kasenessen’s Durance. You are the Wildwielder, returned to the Land. The skurj pose no threat to the Elohim, though they are ruled by Kastenessen’s will. You will act to oppose both. Thus, the Elohim see no need for concern.

Q14: What’s the peril of the halfhand?
R14: You insist on asking questions which show your ignorance. You waste my help.

Linden then responds with anger. A few of the things she says are: “When I do learn something, it isn’t relevant to my problems.” “I’ve got nothing but questions.” “How can I help wasting you when you won’t tell me what I need to know?” Then Esmer makes his final statement of the conversation—“You must be the first to drink of the EarthBlood.”—and is gone.
In a way, it seems that Esmer is responding to two things with this final statement. Linden’s “What is the peril of the halfhand?” question, and her demand to be told “what she needs to know.” Either way, I see it as one of few direct answers he gives her in this whole conversation.

Lurch framed a question in his dissection that is also very relevant to this dissection: “Without naivete, how can there be revelation?” As I said above, both Linden and we, the readers, are those naïve. Though much is revealed in this chapter, the knowledge frankly left me more confused by virtue of the revealing. The conversation was structured in part as a juxtaposition of question-about-one-thing and then answer-about-something-else. Few direct lines existed between question(er) and answer(er).
It would seem that Linden shared my experience of this confusion. Esmer departed and she still didn’t feel as though she got the information that she needed. Esmer’s answers seemed to add to Linden’s sense of illusion, even though the stuff he told her was true (as far as we know it from FR). Truth and illusion: both are intertwined together in this chapter, and left me with an ominous sense of unfulfillment, or a foreboding of something not envisioned. And for Linden I think this was also true; on pg. 39 she says “Even with the Staff, I might as well be blind.” Though she has arguably more power than anyone else in the Land, she also feels more powerless than anyone else.

Though the crux of this chapter centered around this conversation between Linden and Esmer, there is other thing from the chapter that I would like to comment on:
1. While at Glimmermere, Linden walks through a host of memories in her mind, one of which was Covenant telling her of his experience as Kasreyn’s helpless prisoner. Kasreyn described the power of white gold thusly: (pg. 19) “…purity cannot endure. Thus, within each of my works I must perforce place one small flaw, else there would be no work at all. Its (white gold’s) imperfection is the very paradox of which the Earth is made, and with it a master may form perfect works and fear nothing.”
Linden muses that this explanation may help her understand why TC showed up at Revelstone. She thinks that maybe when Foul used the ring on TC and burned away the venom, he purified TC’s spirit to such an extent that he had become a sort of perfect being. While I don’t really buy this idea, I think it’s interesting that this morsel should be dropped on us in this particular chapter.

Ok, I’ll let my dissection end there. Can’t wait to get into it with y’all over the next couple weeks! Hail dissectors!

[lurch]

earthbrah,,Excellent surfacing of the parallels between Linden and us the readers.You brought it all to the surface,,I hope you don't mind me putting My label on what you identified..

.Please allow me to ask,,Esmer,, just what is he? Sure, the product of a mermaid and a haruchai...The polar opposites in conflict IS Him..His nature tho,,what he brings ,,,is the chance, the opportunity for Linden to rise above the " conflict"..overcome the conflict that he brings. IMHO,, Esmer is the Surreal. SO,, the observation that his answers don't answer the questions put to him,,is right on,,from our naive perspective. But,, from a Surreal perspective, then maybe an understanding can be ours.The whole history and evolution of the Vile comes across as a parable of the folly of assigning good and bad ( polar opposites) to this group of creations. I repeat myself..the subjectivity of the real and the Mystery of Truth is being explored,,even further in Difficult Answers.

Difficult Answers are difficult because they aren't logical. They require another way of perceiving and thinking to grasp...Whats the olde joke about Surrealists? ,,: how many Surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb?...the answer is.." Fish"!..So it is with Esmer and his Difficult Answers. To me..Donaldson just told the same joke in a more elaborate and extended way..ESmers answers only bring more Mystery which brings us closer to Truth. Yea I know,,i'm pushing the envelope and it hurts. But just look at the questions,, all logical ,,Why,,How,,What,,but answers aren't following the linear logic..The answers are more spherical,,parables. Esmer even rubs it in that her linear logic, her " thinking" hasn't served her so well,, so where was she coming from in accusing him of anything..

" You must be the first to drink the EarthBlood",,,a Mystery that brings us to a Truth. But take note here..Yes its a direct answer but consider the nature of it...is there not a little Love involved also?

Yeaa,, I really dig this Esmer character. To me,, he is the personification of the Surreal in these Lost Chronicles.. So if he leaves us confused and bewildered..maybe that should be an impetus for us to look into the Surreal.,,Maybe,,this is what Linden does?

Yes,, Linden musing about a perfect being...that the idea pops up in her head at this time IS interesting...The connection between the Surreal and Lindens Perfect Being is thus originated

[earthbrah]

I definitely buy the idea of Esmer being the model of surreal-ness in this series. And I love that his nature is made so manifest as a nauseous result in Linden whenever he is present. At the end of their conversation, "Esmer's sudden anguish was so acute that it seemed to splash against her skin like spray; and the doleful green of his gaze cried out to her. In response, her stomach twisted as though she had swallowed poison."

Your question about what Esmer really is struck a thought in me: Before summoning him, Linden had mused about white gold, and TC possibly having become a perfect being of wild magic by Foul burning the venom out of his spirit. Perhaps this bit was written in this chapter as a counterpoint to what Esmer might also be: an obstacle to the power of what might have made TC a perfect being. We know his presence blocks Linden's access to the wild magic. Perhaps there is more to this mentioning of Kasreyn's take on this talisman in this chapter than we see on the surface...

And I also agree: the indirect, difficult answers Esmer gives, especially about the Viles, throw us off because they aren't logical extensions of the questions asked. However, he IS answering her, IS giving her information she needs. It reminds me of a sailing analogy: sometimes in order to get to your destination, say, in the east, you must tack west for a spell. Esmer's revelations are forcing us/Linden to tack a different direction than we/she wants to go. However, that doesn't mean that they won't ultimately get us/her there.

[dlbpharmd]

Excellent summary of a difficult chapter, Earthbrah! Thanks!

I think this is the first chapter that demonstrates the familar criticism of the contrived nature of FR that so many have noted. As mentioned, every direct and logical question from Linden brings an indirect and sometimes non sequitur answer. For example, Linden's pointed question about Kasty controlling the Demondim brings a weird respons from Esmer about the history of the Viles and then later the Cavewights. What does this have to do with anything (except to be a obvious foreshadowing that we would see the Viles and Cavewights later in FR.)

A strange point is also made about the ur-viles wishing to further aid the purpose that started with the creation of Vain - what further purpose could there be?

[earthbrah]

Part of what I really like about this chapter is that some of what is talked about is foreshadowing of things to come later in FR, and some of it seems to be foreshadowing of what will likely come in the next two books.

It answers some immediate questions, answers some questions not asked, and raises more questions than it proposes to answer. Great stuff!

[lurch]

"Esmer's sudden anguish was so acute that it seemed to splash against her skin like spray; and the doleful green of his gaze cried out to her. In response, her stomach twisted as though she had swallowed poison."

.

For what it is worth,a very personal experience is to follow and again, it demonstrates this " bridge" between author and reader: I have made a concerted effort in researching Surrealism and its originators. I have made much effort to " understand" and thus " experience" this "Surreal." Suffice to say " Unencumbered" plays a large part in experiencing the Surreal. I don't know about anybody else,,but my experience " in" the Surreal,at first always brought a nausea,, a state of dizzyness, a vertigo of sorts,,perhaps a physical property of the " unencumbered" . Esmers floating thru Time and Space suggests the freedom,,the unencumbered, of the Surreal state and yes, Lindens nausea I can relate to.

I know what I speak of is.." weird"..I am willing to put forth the perspective , if only to communicate the thought that there are Other Ways of perceiving and thinking. It seems to me, that the author, in these Last Chronicles, does the same.

[earthbrah]

While I haven't studied Surrealism, I fully get what you're saying about Esmer. I also get that the experience of Surrealism can be 'nauseating', 'dizzying'. My experience of such matters is couched in different terms.

Esmer is a character who is forever in flux, forever caught in liminality, betwixt and between two modes or patterns of functioning; between two dynamical systems of thought. He is a walking concretization of fertile chaos, and his presence almost always leaves me feeling a bit dizzy in mind as well.

When we personally go through periods of transformation in our lives, we are also caught in this realm of liminality where the once familiar boundaries are thrown more wide open, where the old patterns begin to fade and new patterns can be seen on the horizon; but while in this space, the lack of familiarity, lack of known personal boundaries gives us a sense of uncertainty, confusion and doubt.

Esmer has got to be my favorite new character for just this reason. He has got to be the most interesting for SRD to write, IMO. I think he's my favorite because I can relate to his condition so much. And we got a potent dose of this guy in this chapter. His developmental climax is something I very much look forward to reading in the coming books.

[lurch]

Excellent summary of a difficult chapter, Earthbrah! What does this have to do with anything (except to be a obvious foreshadowing that we would see the Viles and Cavewights later in FR.)

A strange point is also made about the ur-viles wishing to further aid the purpose that started with the creation of Vain - what further purpose could there be?

I found it fascinating that the author has all these creatures present in their full display of gray tones; lighter gray to dark gray..Include the Demondim out side the gates if you want. ..There is Esmer,,the personification of the polar opposites,, as in Black and White ,,and all these off-spring from the original Viles,, in their gray tone splendor. The metaphor is astounding. What you have here is The Surreal Formula., visually ( ok, thru descriptive words) presented. The idea of.. Truth will Not be found in the polar opposites,,Not in the diametrically opposed,,but can be found in the observation of the interfacing of the opposites , which gives rise to a better idea, gives rise to a higher plane of the Imagination, where new ideas can be discovered and a future created from,,is the Surreal formula. So Esmer just offered Linden all this Surreal Formula,,the " here to service you"..further purpose,,etc,,,and because Linden is still burdened by memories,,is still " encumbered" by her past,,she totally misses what Esmer is offering her..The Ultimate answer is..the answer to " Who Am I?..Esmer just offered Linden the Process to It,,and as we see..She is not ready.

[hue of fuzzpaws]

What struck me whilst I re-read this chapter was this reply by Esmer:


"You inquire of Kastenessen, and I reply. That which appears evil need not have been so from the beginning, and need not remain so until the end."

FR, pg.58

Is Esmer referring to Kastenessen in this statement? or is he articulating a sub-text within the Last Chronicles?

[drew]

This was certainly a handy chapter...giving us a little more of a history lesson.

IN Runes, the history lessons were mainly from Anele; whereas now we get it from another point of view; instead of hearing about the suffering of the One Forrest as from Anele, we hear about the Raver's influence;

From this point, it seems that the Author is not only writting an awesome story/ending to the chronicles...he's also giving us what he said he never would:
A Prequel.

Only is his own round about sort of way.

[lurch]

What struck me whilst I re-read this chapter was this reply by Esmer:


"You inquire of Kastenessen, and I reply. That which appears evil need not have been so from the beginning, and need not remain so until the end."

FR, pg.58

Is Esmer referring to Kastenessen in this statement? or is he articulating a sub-text within the Last Chronicles?

I will offer this: Over all,, the subjective nature of what we call " real" is being proposed. There is " change" in that answer. A consequence of a reality thats only constant is " change" is its subjectivity..Everyone perceives " reality" differently. 10 witnesses to a car accident will give 10 different versions of the incident. Bottom line is, Truth is not to be found in what is called Reality. Yes,,reality exists. Stone and wall can be touched. But there is no Human Truth to be found in them.

So to Kastenessen, the perception of Kastenessen, a change is being suggested. Now, the question becomes,,what changes? Is it Linden who comes to a new and different perspective on things,,or Kastenessen who changes? Interesting of all this,, is we only know of Kastenessen by the tales told by 2nd and 3rd parties...back to the car accident.

So,, my answer to the question is Yes.....I'm not being flippant here. The question is qualified, parametered by the " OR"...I see both sides of the " Or"..as intertwined. Rather than the use of the " Or",, i would have used the word ," and".I am only demonstrating how one little word can change a perspective,,get one outside of a box...you know, change.

[Zarathustra]

Ok, so there's lots of surrealism. You guys have that angle more than adequately covered, so I'm going to shift directions and do a little bit of Linden bashing.

Ok, not really. I love Linden, as I've said. However, the longstanding debate between THOOLAH and the rest of us gets some ammunition at the beginning of this chapter. Basically, SRD outlines the very argument that critics of Linden give themselves--which is curious, because in the GI, Donaldson tries to deny that Linden is reckless or making mistakes. So where do readers get ideas like this? From paragraphs like this:

She had risked the destruction of the world in order to retrieve the Staff of Law so that she might have some chance to redeem her son; yet both Jeremiah and Covenant had appeared through no act or decision or hazard of hers. For years and years she had striven to free Jeremiah from the chains of his peculiar dissociative disorder; yet he had reclaimed his mind in her absence, while Lord Foul tormented him. She had used all of her will and insight in an attempt to sway the Masters, and had won only Anele's freedom and Stave's friendship--at the cost of Stave's violent expulsion from the communion of his people. And she had brought the Demondim to this time, recklessly, when Revelstone had no defense.

So it's clear that Linden judges herself harshly. She thinks she is reckless, and risking the world, and achieving very little for these risks.

Like Kevin's Dirts, shame threatened to drain her until she was too weak to bear the cost of her life. Without the Staff's fire to sustain her, she clung to her best memories of Covenant's love--and to the possibilities of Gimmermere--so that she would not be driven to her knees by the weight of her mistakes and failures.

So she IS making mistakes! We, the readers, aren't imagining this! However, it should be noted that this is precisely where Donaldson reminds us of Kasreyn and his lesson on imperfection. This is the context: Linden's mistakes, combined with the necessity of imperfection. He's laying the groundwork for her to forgive herself (which, as SRD reminds us, was the point of the first trip to this Lake: to forgive herself of possessing Covenant). This lesson cannot be overstated. This is one of the most important themes of this series . . . so THOOLAH has something to teach us, after all, even if they only have half of the story.

In the general Q and A page on Donaldson's website, we get this question and answer:

But if these new books scare you so badly, why are you writing them at all? Have you finally become ready?

No, I'm not ready. But I am getting older--I may not yet be as old as dirt, but dirt and I are starting to have an awful lot in common--and I finally realized three things. First, I'm probably never going to be ready. Second, at my age, being ready is probably not as important as facing my fears. And third, if I don't face my fears, I'll probably regret it for the rest of my dwindling life. So I decided that it's better to make the attempt and risk near-certain failure than to avoid the challenge and guarantee failure. After all, what's the worst that can happen? I'll blow it; everyone will know that I blew it; and my career will end with a whimper instead of a bang. On a cosmic scale, that's pretty trivial.

Linden Avery, like High Lord Mhoram before her, has a few things to say about the redemptive potential of inadequacy.

"In a flawed world, purity cannot endure." (p19)

"[W]hite gold was an alloy; inherently impure. Its imperfection is the very paradox of which the Earth is made, and with it a master may form perfect works and fear nothing." (p19)

What the hell does that mean? Inherent flaws give us the power to perform perfect works??? Kasreyn's flaw eventually enabled their victory: Nom. But, as the text says (p20), "that was not the lesson Covenant wanted her to learn." In other words, that's not the lesson Donaldson wants us to take away from this trip down memory lane. He then shifts gears and connects Kasreyn to Mhoram's mantra: "You are the white gold." And then he mentions how Covenant had become fused in the Banefire, an (imperfect) alloy of venom and wild magic. Like the white gold itself. And he was thus "capable of perfect power." (???)

But the lesson (or the reevaluation) isn't over. "At the time," Donaldson says (in other words, not this time--he's got a new interpretation for us), "he had wanted Linden to understand why he would never again use his ring. He had become too dangerous: he was human and did not trust himself to achieve any perfection except ruin." (p. 20).

Clearly, this is a strange sense in which Donaldson is using "perfection." (Ditto for "imperfection.") Not many of us would describe ruin as a kind of perfection. Yet, I think we really need to understand what he means here; it's not a coincidence that he is using the climax of the entire 2nd Chronicles to teach us a point. When an author is talking about how to interpret the final act of the hero, the culminating scene of a trilogy, we'd best pay attention. Ok, now for the "point."

"But now she thought that perhaps his words three and a half thousand years ago explained his unexpected appearance here. He had been transformed in death: Lord Foul had burned away the venom, leaving Covenant's spirit purified. As a result, he may have become a kind of perfect being-who could wield wild magic and fear nothing.

Donaldson uses this as a quasi-explanation of why Covenant's inexplicable behavior in the last chapter could in fact make sense. But was that the whole reason why we took this trip into memories? Or is that merely the way the author steers his way back to the present? Personally, I can't believe he would use the climax of the 2nd Chronicles, connected with some of the deepest themes of all three Chronicles, merely to explain a direction the narrative has taken (i.e. Covenant's weird behavior). Sure, his behavior is a mystery. But is it really a mystery which touches upon this work's deepest themes? Not really. If we go back to the beginning of these reflections, we recall that Linden began this "flashback" in shame, thinking of her mistakes. And she is thinking of her mistakes precisely because of Covenant's inexplicable appearance (and his behavior). His appearance highlights her mistakes, because it makes all those risks seem pointless. So, Covenant's appearance is merely the way into and out of this "flashback." It is indeed the author steering the text.

So, let's resist the author's gentle hand for a moment longer, and think about perfection. What is it about imperfection that allows one to do "perfect works"? I don't think the perfection lies in the end product, otherwise ruin couldn't be included. The perfection lies in the lack of fear. Look again at the answer Donaldson gave: So I decided that it's better to make the attempt and risk near-certain failure than to avoid the challenge and guarantee failure. Compared to Kasreyn's words: "with it a master may form perfect works and fear nothing." The perfection lies in accepting your inadequacy, facing your imperfection, accepting that it is an inherent part of you, and not letting that stop you from acting.

Covenant wasn't yet at that point after the Banefire, because he still feared to use his ring. But now Linden wonders if Covenant is able to use his ring again, without fear.

However, it's strange that she thinks this is plausible due to Lord Foul burning away Covenant's imperfection! Especially when accepting our imperfection is the thing that allows us to act without fear. So is Donaldson contradicting himself? Or revising himself? What kind of perfection is achieved by having Despite wear itself out in self-absorbed fury? If Foul is the part of Covenant that hates lepers, as SRD has said, then the end of WGW was Covenant's own self-hatred expending itself on himself. Is that the "perfection" he achieved? He stopped hating himself?

If so, that would indeed prepare us for a similar lesson Linden must learn. She has to forgive herself, and trust herself. Which brings us right back to where we started: her trip to Glimmermere, where she once had her shame washed away in the Land's version of Baptism.

[Relayer]

(These were all answered by Esmer in question format.)

Alex Trebek would have been very pleased... "I'd like 'Historical figures of the Land' for $200, please."

(Wait, but you also said that you didn’t bring them from the abysm of time, so how are the past and the abysm of time different?)

I think what he means is he didn't forcefully bring them.

"‘Good cannot be accomplished by evil means’, yet that hasn’t stopped you from doing the things you’ve done. Why should I be judged more strictly?"

Good reply! Esmer takes sh*t from nobody. THOOLAH likes this response.

I also really like the characterization of Esmer... and in this scene, how he scorns that he came because she called him. Yet he does come, and is helpful (in his way). But then he decides that "my debt is repaid, I'm answering no more questions" right when she asks a truly pointed one. I suppose it's good that he doesn't go beyond that point, because then Linden would owe him, or he'd be even more obligated to cause harm.

I also loved this exchange:
Linden: "If you didn't insist on doing harm, you wouldn't need relief."
Esmer: "If I did not insist upon aiding you, I would not be required to commit harm."

His existence truly must be torture! And, this raises a question... is he "required" by his nature, or specifically *by someone*?

Lurch framed a question in his dissection that is also very relevant to this dissection: “Without naivete, how can there be revelation?” As I said above, both Linden and we, the readers, are those naïve. Though much is revealed in this chapter, the knowledge frankly left me more confused by virtue of the revealing. The conversation was structured in part as a juxtaposition of question-about-one-thing and then answer-about-something-else. Few direct lines existed between question(er) and answer(er).
It would seem that Linden shared my experience of this confusion. Esmer departed and she still didn’t feel as though she got the information that she needed. Esmer’s answers seemed to add to Linden’s sense of illusion, even though the stuff he told her was true (as far as we know it from FR).

Excellent points. And I felt the same way... and that Donaldson is doing this purposefully, wanting us to experience the story directly through Linden's confusion. In the first two series, although we were in the POV of TC or Linden, I didn't experience "them" so directly... Because of this, I called this chapter "Difficult Reading" I remember in the first few chapters, really not liking the book very much, and feeling very frustrated. But then I realized, this is what I'm supposed to experience, really feeling what the main character feels. This might be part of what SRD had found to be so difficult to write... not the plot itself so much, as the "mechanics" of how to write it so personally.

I know what I speak of is.." weird"..I am willing to put forth the perspective , if only to communicate the thought that there are Other Ways of perceiving and thinking.

Lurch, please continue! I love your "out of the box" perspectives. You shed a completely different light on the story.

Truth will Not be found in the polar opposites,,Not in the diametrically opposed,,but can be found in the observation of the interfacing of the opposites ...

This is a variation on the theme of the First Chrons, the paradox TC faces of "is the Land real or not"... and it makes sense that SRD would continue to visit this concept. This time it's in a much more subtle and internal fashion...

[lurch]

This is the difficult part...Malik..your comments stride thru very important terra,,,You perceive conflicting nature of the author in his written words. And yet..the very resolution to these conflicted perceptions of the author,,you have dismissed in the brush off,,of the surreal.

Self defeatism was and remains a major complaint that the original Surrealists had about the " accepted,, status quo,," way of thinking and perceiving imposed on any one man or woman by the Institutes of Society. The Desire to get out of that manufactured box of Living,,is at the core of the Surreal..Out of that box is where the Truth of " Who Am I? " is found. Going to Terra Incognito can be with Fear,,but gaining access Has to be without Fear.

Perfection is subjective. I really wouldn't think of Perfection in terms of an Absolute,, as a Black or a White. Perfection that the author is going after,, i can only suggest is a ,,state of mind,,a Process rather than an End Item. This Process yeilds all sorts of Good and Bad and every shade of Gray inbetween,,Alot of which is discarded,,not of the Answer to " Who Am I?". It is that which sticks,, which is held onto and created from,,that becomes the answer to " Who Am I?"..This Process, state of Mind..is the yeilder of The Magnificent,,is The Yeilder of any one person's Truth,,is the Perfection.

Linden's trip to the lake is predicated on getting Time to Think..It is because she is still within the Box of " thinking",,,that she misses all what is being offered by Esmer. Her Logic,,does not allow her to see..the surreal. As much as any one touts Thoolah,,is it possible that their own blindness causes them their " dislike"?...More to the point,,,

Spoiler

does Thoolah or anyone else ,really want to Not hate Linden?

Linden has cleansed her self in the lake,,but the necessary " change" has yet to happen to Linden..Like Kevin's Dirt, Logic doesn't allow Linden to see clearly.

[Zarathustra]

This is the difficult part...Malik..your comments stride thru very important terra,,,You perceive conflicting nature of the author in his written words. And yet..the very resolution to these conflicted perceptions of the author,,you have dismissed in the brush off,,of the surreal.

I felt like the resolution that I noted didn't require an examination of the surreal, though there are probably a number of resolutions which are valid.

Rereading my own rambling post, I realized that perhaps it is unclear that I was presenting a solution to a problem which I discovered as merely apparent, rather than making an argument for Donaldson contradicting himself.

Basically, I think that the perfection/imperfection musing which Linden performs is there to set up what Donaldson wants to show us concerning "the redemptive potential of inadequacy." And the lesson he seems to carry with him into his own life (which is how we can tell he's serious about it), is that it's important to act despite one's inadequacy--indeed, the with full recognition of one's inadequacy. It is important to not let fear of failure stop you. We are all imperfect. The world is imperfect. Like Linden, we are all thrown into a world that has specific conditions we did not create. Yet, it is our task to respond to those conditions, and strive for what's important to us.

This certainly applies to Linden's character arc. She knows she is inadequate to this task, but she doesn't let that stop her. In fact, she goes on a journey to find the tools necessary to mitigate her inadequacy (i.e. give her more power and control).

And I think this connects with Covenant for exactly the reasons given in the text: we still haven't seen the full analysis of Covenant's act at the end of WGW. Donaldson isn't done telling us what it means. He had his "imperfection" burned out of him by his own self-hate (Lord Foul). But his "imperfection" was the union of venom and wild magic (in the Banefire). Union of both passion and loss of control. Yet, he gains control by giving up his use of wild magic . . . but that sounds a awful lot like the Oath of Peace, doesn't it? Covenant's WGW "solution" isn't final. And we're getting some of the first clues what was wrong with it.

[Relayer]

we still haven't seen the full analysis of Covenant's act at the end of WGW. Donaldson isn't done telling us what it means.

I'd say we've barely scratched the surface of that concept.

And related to your post, this came in an email earlier today:

"To dare is to lose one's footing momentarily.
To not dare is to lose oneself."

- Soren Kierkegaard

And that quote seems appropriate for my 1000th post

[lurch]

That is a fascinating line,," redemptive potential of inadequacy"..like, if a bicep muscle is not substantial enough to say.. lift an engine block, then its off to the gym and exercise until it is substantial enough to lift an engine block..or..just use another muscle in the body that is substantial enough to lift the engine block?? Seems to me that Donaldson's analogy to his Karate bouts suggests ,,allowing our Inadequacies to direct us towards our Adequacies,,thus allowing for a full exploration of our Potentials. Simply put,,we are not all Mozarts,,or DaVincis, or Einstiens,,or Shakespearres,,but,,as Individuals,,we each have a Potential,,a Talent.. to discover and create from. Seems to me,This is the path of Lindens Quest. This the Perfection that only an Individual can discover. Seems to me, This is the answer to Lindens " Who Am I?"

[Zarathustra]

Random thoughts:

Several times, Donaldson repeats that Linden is going to Glimmermere to find her identity. Why, specifically, does he stress that her identity is at issue?

Spoiler

In retrospect, the issue of identity is obviously very important in terms of Covenant. But why would her own identity be an issue?

Also, Donaldson repeats a couple times that her trip to the Lake will allow her to be heard. I didn't pick up on this the first time, because I didn't know that she needed Esmer to hear her, to answer her. I like that touch now, it makes her trip to the Lake seem less arbitrary, less like a stroll through familiar scenes of the past. It gives the narrative a specific purpose and exigency.

[Relayer]

I'd say it's that so much of who she is, who she's become, in the last 10 years is so tightly intertwined with her love and memories of Covenant, and her love and parenting of Jeremiah... all of which they have apparently rebuffed and invalidated in about 2.6 minutes.

She knows who she is in relation to them (or her memories), and to her expectations, but needs to re-establish who SHE is, inside herself.

I don't remember the exact wording, but it's also interesting that when it said she was going to Glimmermere for answers, I took that to imply more metaphorical "answers" in the form of the healing waters, etc. And her request to Stave to find the Mahdoubt was still on my mind. That she intended to call Esmer was unexpected.

[earthbrah]

That phrase--"the redemptive power of indadequacy"--struck me too when I first read it. Hell, it still resonates in my mind as a powerful idea. And to me, it's a way of expressing the challenges we all face in this life.

We are all faced with things (life events, obstacles, challenges, whatever) that essentially exceed our active abilities to meet them. Nonetheless, most of us grit our teeth and trudge forward to meet them anyway, whatever they be, however mundane. "Keep moving, find out what happens. Give yourself a chance to discover who you are." Linden certainly grasped that concept from the Second Chrons, and has been using it well enough in the Last Chrons so far. Oh, she may have done some questionable things, but she has sought to meet whatever obstacles have been placed in front of her.

I also hear something else in this phrase: do the impossible. If a person is inadequate to doing something, doesn't that basically mean that as he/she is now, he/she cannot accomplish it? And yet, such accomplishments are made every day. Inadequacy is another way of saying 'limits', and if you can exceed your own limits even just a little, then you have essentially done the impossible.

Hell, without such struggles or endeavors, what meaning would life really have? Where would the sense of accomplishment be if everyone were always adequate to meeting the challenges before them? What of discovery? of self-discovery?
Linden is definitely discovering who she is by going out and doing the things she shouldn't be able to do. By exceeding herself, she is constantly uncovering aspects of or spaces within herself that she didn't know existed before. The more illusions she penetrates, or even encounters, the more potent become her actions.

Spoiler

Berek himself said it of her later in FR: (something like) "You bear powers which surpass you. But you have it within yourself to exceed them both." So far, she has proven him right. And yet, it still has not been enough...

Spoiler