8 reasons a TCTC film should never happen

[quag]

Before you flame the crap out of me, hear me out.
1. Because of the scope of the story, the budget would exceed ANYTHING ever made in film history, even by scale of the current value of the dollar vs Cecil B De Mille, to do the story justice.
2. The story is told mostly through TC's or LA's eyes, making it nearly impossible to properly convey the story without narrative, which would not work.
3. Even with CGI, rendering certain phenomenon, (health sense for instance,) would be impossible to convey in a visual medium.
4. As far as casting, it's not possible to do any of the film with known actors, unless they made a deal for a portion of the film's gross, which the producers and directors not to mention the studio will not like to do.
5. Any film made from this series of novels will EVER do the books justice.
6. SRD certainly has a right to pursue this endeavor as it is his work, however, consider this. There are very few cases of someone seeing a movie, then deciding to read the novel it's based on, and, almost every movie based on a novel that someone has read has not lived up to their expectations, and NO film has ever exceeded the novel. LOTR was a great film series, but, LOTR was a magnificent series of novels.
7. Sadly but truly, there are not enough of us SRD fans in the world to make it worth Hollywood risk the massive undertaking it would require to
make a film like this.
8. Do you really want to see TCTC action figures? Well, having a lord foul figure to torment would be kind of fun.
It is not my intention to be a buzzkill or to insult anyone in any way. If this has been discussed before, I must have missed the topic as the content of this site has gotten quite large.

[Vain]

Not sure where you've been but we don't flame here

[iQuestor]

Before you flame the crap out of me, hear me out.
1. Because of the scope of the story, the budget would exceed ANYTHING ever made in film history, even by scale of the current value of the dollar vs Cecil B De Mille, to do the story justice.
2. The story is told mostly through TC's or LA's eyes, making it nearly impossible to properly convey the story without narrative, which would not work.
3. Even with CGI, rendering certain phenomenon, (health sense for instance,) would be impossible to convey in a visual medium.
4. As far as casting, it's not possible to do any of the film with known actors, unless they made a deal for a portion of the film's gross, which the producers and directors not to mention the studio will not like to do.
5. Any film made from this series of novels will EVER do the books justice.
6. SRD certainly has a right to pursue this endeavor as it is his work, however, consider this. There are very few cases of someone seeing a movie, then deciding to read the novel it's based on, and, almost every movie based on a novel that someone has read has not lived up to their expectations, and NO film has ever exceeded the novel. LOTR was a great film series, but, LOTR was a magnificent series of novels.
7. Sadly but truly, there are not enough of us SRD fans in the world to make it worth Hollywood risk the massive undertaking it would require to
make a film like this.
8. Do you really want to see TCTC action figures? Well, having a lord foul figure to torment would be kind of fun.
It is not my intention to be a buzzkill or to insult anyone in any way. If this has been discussed before, I must have missed the topic as the content of this site has gotten quite large.

quag -- welcome to the watch!

I think a lot of your reasons are absolutes and opinions. I agree it would be a very difficult film to make, I dont think it would be impossible to convey their internal dialog, healthsense, or other elements.

SRD Doesn't own the movie rights, or perhaps they just reverted back to him last year. There was a couple of producers who had them, and IIRC they even posted here about how big of fans they were and how true to the story they'd be.

I dont think it would be much more difficult that LOTR.

As for the fan base, well I see a lot of films with storylines and characters I never heard of before, so the relatively small fan base as opposed to LOTR shouldnt be a problem with proper marketing.

If I ever win the lottery (and its large enough) I will buy the film rights and pursue getting the right people to make it. True to the story line.

Heck, we already figured out on the Watch who will play what parts. (I am for Hugh Laurie of House fame playing Covenant.

[Nequam]

Hmm. I'm not sure I like the idea of a movie personally. I think it will ruin my perception of many places and peoples and I'm just not sure how close you really can be without having a film that is way too long. Something will have to be cut out or changed. I'd just rather keep them books myself.

[Ur Dead]

I think 2 Billion US would be enough to make all 10 books into movies.

And I do believe it can be done.


2 Billion US.. Thats alot of car washes!

[Blackhawk]

In order to do this it would not be able to be done in movie format..its too little time to get anything comparable to the books and if it was done it would probably be better as an HBO rated R series and only if they could get SRD and maybe those here at the Watch to approve it.. try the first 13 episode season with lord fouls bane, and if it takes off Illearth war as season 2 with a bonus episode "Gilden Fire"..and Narration throughout the episodes should be mandatory...like LOTR which could have used more narration during those long scenery filled treks.

if they could find the right people to pull something like this off, it could be great. but still not as good as the books.. i would only like to see this done if it is exactly as written. thoughts going off into a different part of Covenants life as a scene...it might be confusing if it goes of course to a different scene while in the catacombs of mt thunder or something like that though but it could still be done.

[Cagliostro]

Since LOTR came out, I tried to imagine how a Covenant movie would be. In all honesty, I don't know how it would turn out. A main character who commits rape would be a hard one to sell to the moviegoing public. You are going to have a lot of controversy, which might be good for sales. On the other hand, it could end up hurting it a bit, like the Golden Compass may have been hurt by its controversy, no matter how baseless it was for the movie version. In Hollywood these days, the rapist can never be a "good guy." My ex-fiance would never read Covenant, and would never be able to get past that in the movie form. It would be a very hard sell. Some would find it very interesting and would be intrigued due to the novelty of this, but others would deem it "irresponsible." And with the way our society is with blaming the media for our own faults, I could see someone in court saying "I done it because that guy in that movie done it, yet he was a good guy."
Seriously, as much as I would love to see an adaptation done, and done well, we would be more interested in the story being told well than all this this politicising about one small, yet VERY important part of the story, but that is what it would first start out being all about, wouldn't it? I'm still torn because I think it is an amazing story and partly because Covenant is such a flawed character and an anti-hero.

Or they could just cut it out altogether and make him murder someone, which is much more acceptable, but then you have the fans all pissed off and not coming to see the movie for that reason. Truly a no win situation.

If a studio was brave enough to make it, then I'd say don't actually show the rape, just suggest it.


In all honesty, I think the Gap books would be much easier to film, and there would be considerably less controversy, as Angus duly gets punished. I think it would be easier to open the door to Covenant by filming the Gap books. If they became popular, you would have Donaldson's name out there more and would make what Covenant does right off the bat a little easier to digest. Just my opinion though.

[aTOMiC]

Seeing a beloved book, graphic novel, comic book, tall tale, Urban legend, dirty limerick whatever, translated to a blockbuster film is a pretty universal desire for most fans. After over 20 years of suffering I myself was finally treated to a big budget send up of my favorite comic character, Iron man. I was a fan of LOTR but after watching the three films it presented the story and characters to me in a whole new way. Also with both Iron man and LOTR I find myself discussing the story/characters with people who would have never read the books but had watched and enjoyed the films. One thing I'm fond of saying is "Just because they made a movie it doesn't mean that someone is coming to your house to burn all of your books." In other words making a movie or a sequel to a movie isn't going to negate your appreciation for the source material, especially if you decide not to go the theater at all. I would love to see a big budget motion picture based on the Chrons. It can't possibly BE the Chrons but it is understood that it would be based on as much of the story as is appropriate for the film medium. I believe a film adaptation of the story is quite possible. We may argue about the details, the creative team's choices but at the heart of the matter I believe the movie can and should be made. IMHO

[ParanoiA]

I like the way SRD put it recently in the GI, that movies are more of an "outside in" medium, where writing seems to be more of an "inside out" style.

That fundamental difference seems to be at the source of these discussions.

We're really just batting around the notion of how effectively we think an outside-in medium can convey an inside-out sourced story.

My answer then is to accept that it won't be the same, since it can't be, and decide if there's something an outside-in medium can provide me here that I might find interesting.

I think seeing the wolves, the ranyhyn, the woodhelvin - all this would be magnificent eye candy and could add some leverage to the story. I have visuals on all of the creatures and characters, and the land - but no panoramic, detailed view in my head. I could never really imagine these things with full wonder.

[Damack]

I think seeing the wolves, the ranyhyn, the woodhelvin - all this would be magnificent eye candy and could add some leverage to the story. I have visuals on all of the creatures and characters, and the land - but no panoramic, detailed view in my head. I could never really imagine these things with full wonder.

You know, I was thinking just recently after having seen the latest Indiana Jones movie that today's movies are just too heavily reliant on special effects. It's as if they spend their entire budget on F/X and then only have enough for some thirteen year old to write the script (Transformers, anyone?).

I thought LOTR had a good mix of quality acting and special F/X. So although I'd love to see a nice rendition of a ranyhyn, I'd just hate it if the movie were all F/X and a quick run through the rest of the story like the Golden Compass was. Just my $0.02

[ParanoiA]

I think seeing the wolves, the ranyhyn, the woodhelvin - all this would be magnificent eye candy and could add some leverage to the story. I have visuals on all of the creatures and characters, and the land - but no panoramic, detailed view in my head. I could never really imagine these things with full wonder.

You know, I was thinking just recently after having seen the latest Indiana Jones movie that today's movies are just too heavily reliant on special effects. It's as if they spend their entire budget on F/X and then only have enough for some thirteen year old to write the script (Transformers, anyone?).

I thought LOTR had a good mix of quality acting and special F/X. So although I'd love to see a nice rendition of a ranyhyn, I'd just hate it if the movie were all F/X and a quick run through the rest of the story like the Golden Compass was. Just my $0.02

Yeah, I absolutely agree. It's sad, because there are already tons of great, thought out stories out there for them to use for their FX playground. And to me, the FX aren't as cool without the drama that the story legitimizes. If you rush through the storyline, or give it to an essential 13 year old to write, then the action and FX aren't as meaningful.

To me, that was the thrill of LOTR. So much time was taken to retain the quality of the story - as much as can be expected compared to the book anyway - that the FX and the big battle scenes were just that much more enormous and meaningful.

If that was done for a Covenant movie, I would love it. But it's not...cuz it's got a ring in it....

[DukkhaWaynhim]

I would like to think the ring excuse was used to refrain from delving into the other technical, artistic, and bankability factors which go into what gets greenlit, all of which have been mentioned at some point, either here or elsewhere:
1) the rape
2) the internal dialogue that permeates and explains so much of the action that occurs [would you accept the bargains that TC makes without understanding how he is justifying them internally?; would narrator exposition kill the dramatic effect of a scene - or provide vital context for what is going on - or both?]
3) plot-reveal impact of the technical realisation of the magic of the Land (how to handle health-sense?; do you display Raver-possession to the audience?; etc.]
4) CG budget for geography, characters, creatures, magic, battle scenes, etc
5) Script considerations - what geography or which characters / events can be compressed out of the Chrons to save money or fit into proper movie length?

The scale of the First Chrons only is epic - to have reduced the final decision down to "FC is neat... oh, it has a ring? LOTR already done that." is foolishly dismissive - but it is typical of a movie producer / underwriter.

A movie is a financial investment - so at some point it all comes down to two things:
1) A cost sketch (how much does it cost to make?)
2) An income estimate (how much money will it make?)

The pitch is a sales job - convincing someone with money that it will take in more than it costs to make - and that your idea is better than all the others. Somebody looks at the white gold ring, and sees that rather coincidental likeness to LOTR as a reason which might hurt its ability to draw the people to the movieplex. Studios have me-too movies all the time - but we are talking mega-budget...at least if FCTC are made the way they deserve to be made.

dw

[Blackhawk]

Before you flame the crap out of me, hear me out.
1. Because of the scope of the story, the budget would exceed ANYTHING ever made in film history, even by scale of the current value of the dollar vs Cecil B De Mille, to do the story justice.
2. The story is told mostly through TC's or LA's eyes, making it nearly impossible to properly convey the story without narrative, which would not work.
3. Even with CGI, rendering certain phenomenon, (health sense for instance,) would be impossible to convey in a visual medium.
4. As far as casting, it's not possible to do any of the film with known actors, unless they made a deal for a portion of the film's gross, which the producers and directors not to mention the studio will not like to do.
5. Any film made from this series of novels will EVER do the books justice.
6. SRD certainly has a right to pursue this endeavor as it is his work, however, consider this. There are very few cases of someone seeing a movie, then deciding to read the novel it's based on, and, almost every movie based on a novel that someone has read has not lived up to their expectations, and NO film has ever exceeded the novel. LOTR was a great film series, but, LOTR was a magnificent series of novels.
7. Sadly but truly, there are not enough of us SRD fans in the world to make it worth Hollywood risk the massive undertaking it would require to
make a film like this.
8. Do you really want to see TCTC action figures? Well, having a lord foul figure to torment would be kind of fun.
It is not my intention to be a buzzkill or to insult anyone in any way. If this has been discussed before, I must have missed the topic as the content of this site has gotten quite large.

if they do it without narrative it would be a miserable failure even if it were a 10 movie option.

as far as TC fans go it would only requre a great trailer to get people in the theaters....even LOTR fans that hate TCTC would go see it, if it has great special effects and mind blowing landscapes then there will always be a crowd..look at chronicles of Narnia...and that S**T is by far comprised of the wimpiest cast ive ever seen...in my life. So i dont understand how anyone could think that this movie would fail completely....great sound track great visuals and great storyline...a little dark maybe but not any darker than any war movie thats been made. they worry about a rape but in Gladiator, 300, Troy, Braveheart..etc they show the most brutal sh** I have ever seen. and I know there is more gory stuff than that even..and they had rape scenes in almost all of those movies. raping pillaging chopping off heads and arms and legs...

i think it would be a great success if they gave it to the right person to direct.

most likely it would be a miserable failure for everyone who read the chronicles and a great movie for those who are clueless.

who said ignorance is bliss?? oh yeah..the guy from the matrix, and im sure someone else originated it.

LOL i would love a TCTC action figur that had a button so he would say...DONT TOUCH ME!!! and one of Linden Avery where she puts her hands to her temples and says..please i need to think... and a Drool Rockworm figure that said, MINE!!!

[ParanoiA]

LOL i would love a TCTC action figur that had a button so he would say...DONT TOUCH ME!!! and one of Linden Avery where she puts her hands to her temples and says..please i need to think... and a Drool Rockworm figure that said, MINE!!!

Ok, I nearly spit my drink on my monitor...I would buy all three.

[Kevin164]

The First Chronicles would be a hard sell. I figure it would be easier to market the second chronicles as a movie trilogy. Tackle the first as a prequel and then if they all do well in the box office come back with the last four books with new actors and a different vision.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

a little dark maybe but not any darker than any war movie thats been made. they worry about a rape but in Gladiator, 300, Troy, Braveheart..etc they show the most brutal sh** I have ever seen. and I know there is more gory stuff than that even..and they had rape scenes in almost all of those movies. raping pillaging chopping off heads and arms and legs...

The reason is because we, the audience, don't care about those who get grotesquely murdered by our heroes-we're sick people.

Whereas Lena we would probably care about at that point, and also later Elena. It's not violence (America is a violence addicted society), it's violence against our feelings.

[inablackout]

I agree with some of the things in your list.

I think the "it has a ring" excuse is lame to put it nicely. The story doesn't revolve around the ring like in LOTR. It is a major part, but not the main thing.

I agree the undertaking of the saga would be huge, just from a filming standpoint. But if done correctly it would blow LOTR out of the water. I could also see narrative being done, during those long journeys through the land, in order to convey whats truly going on in the minds of the characters.

While it may not do aswell, maybe "they" could consider an anime movie? Something with real sharp art. Released on DVD. Then it could be done in installments. Also it could stay more true to the books...

[Vraith]

Umm...just to be sure, so what I say next isn't stupid, as well as opinionated...
When y'all are saying narrative, you're talking voice-over right?
If you are, then: Hellfire! NO. There are lots of ways to deal with the internal stuff, and voice-over is the weakest for this work [for LF and/or the Creator, fine, not for TC though.]

Great action figures, though Blackhawk. Add a Bloodguard doll that stares blankly at anyone who talks.

[inablackout]

I'm not suggesting voice over for the entire movie, but there would be certain spots where it would work. How else are you gonna get the point across, where in the books its a story being told explaining how TC is feeling/reacting in his head about certain events, sorry man but the average movie goer won't get it. Those of us who have read the books will understand for sure.

I guess this is all a moot point being as the movie got scrapped, those hollywood bastards!!!

[sweetbread]

2 Billion US.. Thats alot of car washes!

Or about 2 weeks worth of GW Bush in office....