Dogma

[Mr. Broken]

I sat down and watched this again last night and realized that I had forgotten what a smart, funny movie it was. In my opinion it is Smith's best film to date if only because of its controversial message, but it is also a good film to watch just for a laugh.

[Cail]

Poorly executed film that highlights how little Smith knows or understands about Catholicism. A few laughs, but overall a clunker that thinks it's smarter than it is.

[Creator]

Not a deep critique - but my daughter LOVED this film! [She's sweet on Damon]

Dad has some problem with the lanquage that would make even Joe Pesci blush!!

[Mr. Broken]

I guess you a have a right to that opinion, and although we have disagreed on films before, this is the first time youve ever surprised me, but it sounds to me like you took the film as an insult to Catholocism, like most of the critics, and thats OK. However I feel like there were way better means available to strike the Church below the belt than the way he took. He could have worked the Pedophile Preist angle, or Rome's indifference to the Holocaust angle. I still think that it was well done .

[dlbpharmd]

To me, Dogma was just boring, and a big departure from the funny films that Smith has done (Mallrats, Clerks, etc.) I've seen it once and probably will never sit through it again.

[Cail]

I guess you a have a right to that opinion, and although we have disagreed on films before, this is the first time youve ever surprised me, but it sounds to me like you took the film as an insult to Catholocism, like most of the critics, and thats OK. However I feel like there were way better means available to strike the Church below the belt than the way he took. He could have worked the Pedophile Preist angle, or Rome's indifference to the Holocaust angle. I still think that it was well done .

Nope, I wasn't even Catholic when it came out.

By and large, the film isn't funny. It's mean-spirited and wrong on facts as well.

[Plissken]

"I'd rather have ideas than beliefs..." Not a bad theme. (And I thought it was very funny - but still like Chasing Amy better.)

[Cagliostro]

Strange...I never got that it was mean-spirited. It did poke fun of the church a little bit, particularly the dogma of it (hence the name), but I felt there were definitely punches pulled because Kevin Smith does actually believe. The cornerstone of the movie is the discussion with Chris Rock on the train and the things he says. Things about how dangerous beliefs are.

I felt about the same way the naysayers are talking about this movie after I had seen it once. I didn't find it particularly funny, and felt it was a little mean. After watching it a few more times, I completely reversed my opinion. I still don't think it is his best movie, but I relaxed about it as I think it really does have good things to say amidst the cock and poo jokes. But it is probably his most original.


EDIT: Looks like Plissken nailed the line I was hunting my memory banks for.

[Mr. Broken]

I guess as an outspoken atheist I have no right to question your views on anything Cail , but I find myself wondering if we even watched the same film, "mean spirited"? Maybe Im mean spirited. In fact I know I am, but I really didnt see anything like that in the film, the Spanish Inquisition that was mean spirited. Alanis Morisette as God , now thats funny.

[Montresor]

I'm also an atheist but, I confess, I thought Dogma was trite, childish, and unfunny. I didn't bother to watch it all, though, so maybe it drastically turned around at some stage. I'm not a Kevin Smith fan, so that may be part of the problem, but I found it to be a fairly pretentious film (no offense intended to anyone's tastes).

I've seen funnier and more apt criticisms of faith and church dogma even from medieval Catholics. The satires of Desiderus Erasmus, for instance, are so far ahead of Dogma on all fronts.

[Zarathustra]

I think the movie comes off as pretentious because of Matt Damon. I can't stand him.

Personally, I couldn't care less if Kevin Smith got the details of Catholicism wrong. It's damn funny (if you like Smith's style), and exposes the ludicrous nature of religious dogma by being ludicrous itself. Trite and childish? Yeah, that's exactly the point! The main characters are angels trying to use a technicality to get back into heaven. If that doesn't sound just as silly as thinking that dunking yourself into water can get you into heaven, then you're just too close to the subject to see the parallel.

Smith's movie is stupid. But I don't see that religion is any better. Seems like they nailed it to me, in virtue of the trite tone, inaccuracies, and childishness.

[Montresor]

Again, I point to Erasmus. Like Smith (both Catholics), he used absurdity to show-up the absurdities of some aspects of their faiths. I personally find Ersamus cleverer than Smith. I found Dogma fairly transparent. I couldn't care less about who or what it offended, just didn't find it funny.

And, yes, Matt Damon is just as irritating for me, in anything.

[The Dreaming]

I tend to be pretty automatically suspicious of anyone who calls a work of art "pretentious". (Especially music) It just strikes me as a damn pretentious thing to say.

Dogma is raunchy good fun and fairly decent satire of Catholicisms. (As a Catholic, I love it) Most of us know what's silly about religion, but most of us also see value in it. The movie deals with religion the same way most *sane* religious people deal with it.

[Cail]

That would be all well and good, except that it's not funny. I'd imagine that there are huge chunks of the DVD commentary in which Smith says something to the effect of, "See, this is where I'm being edgy because I'm poking fun at Catholicism.....And I'm a Catholic!".

Sorry Kev, I loved every other film you made (except for Jersey Girl, but Dogma just didn't work.

[Usivius]

thumbs up for Dogma. Don't take it for more than it is: a funny poke at religeon dogma. I thought it was quite funny (except where most of you dislike Matt Damon, I can't stand Chris Rock in 90% of his on-screen part).

But, as we have pointed out before, comedy is one of the hardest things to do as many people find many different things funny.

[Nav]

I liked it and I think you're all forgetting one thing: there's no such thing as a bad Alan Rickman film.

[Tulizar]

I'm not a huge Kevin Smith fan--Mallrats was ok, Clerks was pretty funny, Clerks 2 was probably the worst movie ever made.

I thought Dogma was pretty funny. I was raised Catholic and found the the movie's religious digs amusing, though hardly original. I thought Jay was entertaining. I know it seems childish, but when he drops his pants in anticipation of getting laid only because the world is going to end...seemed amusing at the time especially since his sex partner was the apparent mother of God, which didn't faze Jay at all. Heh-heh.

Certainly no Praise of Folly, but what did Erasmus know about the 13th Apostle? Or the Jersey shore and skee ball?

Not the best movie ever, but it had it's moments.

[Cail]

See, I loved Clerks 2.

[The Dreaming]

Have any of you seen the clip of Kevin Smith protesting his own movie? (He made a sign that said "Dogma is Dog-Shit")

[Mr. Broken]

R.I.P. George C.